Remote teams don’t fail because of distance — they fail because of leadership. Here’s the shift that turns remote teams into a true strategic advantage.
If you’re building a remote team—
Or thinking about hiring from the Philippines—
This matters more than you think.
Because success here is not about finding cheaper talent.
And it’s not about working harder to “manage better.”
It’s about understanding what you’re really building.
I’ve worked with Filipino team members for years.
My entire team is based there.
I’ve helped hundreds of business owners do the same.
And I’ll be honest—
I’ve seen it work beautifully…
And I’ve seen it quietly fall apart.
Not because people weren’t capable.
But because leaders didn’t adapt.
Filipino teams bring warmth, loyalty, and deep commitment.
They care, they show up (most of the time!).
They want the business to win.
That’s the upside.
The challenge?
That same care can mean less pushback.
More “yes” when the answer should be “no.”
And unspoken tension when expectations aren’t clear.
If you don’t lead consciously,
You can end up frustrated—
And they end up feeling pressured and overwhelmed.
In this week’s conversation, I sat down with Nicolas Bivero, who’s spent over a decade building Filipino teams at scale.
We talk about:
- Why cultural differences aren’t problems—they’re leverage
- The leadership mistakes that break trust without you realising
- How to think about remote hires as part of your core team, not an add-on
- And what actually makes remote teams stay, grow, and perform
This isn’t theory.
It’s lived experience—from both sides of the table.
If you’re serious about building a business that runs without you carrying everything…
🎧 Listen to the full episode.
Because freedom isn’t about outsourcing tasks.
It’s about building systems—and teams—that can truly hold the work.
KEY TAKEAWAYS: The Leadership Foundations Behind High-Performing Remote Teams
- Treat Remote Hires as Core Team Members, Not Cheap Labour: If you see Filipino hires as “warm bodies” to throw tasks at, you’ll fail. Treat them as a true extension of your core team with proper onboarding, involvement, and long-term investment, and they repay you with commitment, quality, and stability.
- Lean into Cultural Strengths—and Manage the Gaps: Filipinos’ warmth, empathy and team-first mindset make them brilliant for customer-facing and collaborative roles. But that same desire to please can mean they say “yes” when they should push back. As a leader, you must explicitly invite disagreement, make it safe to say “no,” and coach for direct communication.
- Use Global Talent to Fill Dream Roles: Because Filipino talent is more affordable and more readily available, you can create roles you’d never have the budget for if you only hired in your local country. Use remote hires to accelerate growth.
BEST MOMENTS: Real Life Insights On Working With Remote Teams
15:30 – 💬 “If you go in there with the mindset of 'we're going to do this the German way,’ you're going to fail.” — Nicolas Bivero
29:30 – 💬 “There are massive cost benefits for hiring from the Philippines, because the cost of living is significantly lower than in many countries.” — Steve Day
34:42 – 💬 “In Germany, there are half a million people retiring every year. There are not enough young people coming in to actually replace all those roles.” — Nicolas Bivero
TIMESTAMPED OVERVIEW
00:00 Hiring Remote Workers
15:41 Adapting to Cultural Differences
34:20 “Availability Over Affordability”
44:15 Bridging Operational Gaps Effectively
Episode Transcript
Please note: This transcript was generated using automated transcription tools and may contain typographical errors or inaccurately captured words or phrases.
Dr Steve Day: Welcome to Systemize Your Success. I\'m Dr Steve Day. If you\'re considering hiring a remote worker from the Philippines, or you already have a Filipino-based team, then today\'s episode is a must lesson in my opinion. I interviewed Nicolas Rivero. Now, he\'s been helping people to work with Filipino-based workers for over a decade.
He has offices over there, and this is his full-time job. Myself, I\'m an advocate and hugely passionate about working with people from the Philippines. And my entire team is based in the Philippines. Today you\'ve got two industry experts going head to head, discussing the pros and cons of working with Filipino remote workers. About some of the challenges and the cultural differences that we have to overcome and actually adapt to. But how they, those differences can also be massive benefits to us as business owners.
So if you wanna know how to get more out of your Filipino team. Or you have any questions about how this might work in your business, continue listening. As you\'ll learn exactly the way that we go about this to make this work in reality.
Nicolas, so nice to have you on the show. Thank you very much for coming on. Let\'s get started and tell the audience a little bit about what you do. And more importantly, what I wanna know is why you decided to get into what you do. And any of the story, interesting story behind how it all began.
Nicolas Bivero: Yeah. No, it\'s a pleasure being here. Thank you very much for having me. I mean, why do I do what I do? That\'s, it\'s a very long story actually. But it\'s a good question. So I\'ve been living for the last 22 years in Asia. And I got the fortunate opportunity of working in Japan. With a Japanese company, and part of my work for them was to do business development in Southeast Asia for them.
And I over time specialized myself in the Philippines, and set up about four companies with them in the Philippines as joint ventures. During that experience or during that time, I got exposed to the Filipinos. And really managed together with a team to set up some really interesting companies, and very different industries. And that exposure to different industries and different types of roles that we were filling. The, jobs that we were doing in the Philippines itself was quite eye-opening about, what Filipino, like how good Filipinos are. How very nice team members they can be. How, amazing what amazing teams we were able to build and successful businesses.
But at the same time also how outside of the Philippines, most people don\'t even know about it. They think most Filipinos are nurses or, seafarers or things like that. But they didn\'t, they don\'t know of all the other roles.
I mean, a lot of people, of course there are people who know, but there\'s a lot of people who don\'t know. So I think that experience of working with Filipinos, building Filipino teams. And then an opportunity which came about because my best friend and co-founder needed to scale his startup. And yeah, and my idea was like, well, if you need to scale a startup and you need good people, why don\'t we do it with Filipinos?
Why don\'t we do it in the Philippines? That\'s how everything came about. About 11 years ago. And it was a very, very nice way of combining my experience, my exposure, the work I had done for many years in the Philippines and with Filipinos. With the need of my friend and putting those two things together and bridging that gap.
So that\'s how this happened. Yeah.
Dr Steve Day: Cool. I like it. And then so how can I, dare I ask, how is the company going that you, that your friend founded?
Nicolas Bivero: The company my friend founded, went very well actually. And they grew to do quite a nice size. They managed to actually, then sell the company. But they still work in the company, so they did quite well.
And they still have a team of about 90 people in the Philippines with us actually. So the Filipino team, they built over those years was essential for the, success of the company. And even being able to get to the stage that they were able to sell themselves. So, yeah, it\'s been, it\'s quite interesting.
And even the company who bought them now is starting to build other teams with us in the Philippines. Because they looked at this company they bought and they\'re like, oh, see there, you know, they use Filipinos. Maybe we should look into this. You know, there might be something here. So it\'s, it\'s quite nice, to see.
Dr Steve Day: I\'ve got so many great stories of my clients who working with the, with Filipinos. I was explaining before we, we came on camera that I\'ve been an advocate of Filipino team workers for years now. I think the first time I hired someone from the Philippines, eight years ago. Thereabouts.
And, since then my entire team, with a few exceptions of remote workers in different countries. But say 90% of the people I ever worked with have been from the Philippines.
Nicolas Bivero: And how did you go about, how did you, where did the idea of the first eight years ago, the first, person came about?
I mean, how, did that happen out of curiosity? Good question. Turning this around a little bit and asking you I know.
Dr Steve Day: No, this is great. I love conversational interviews. It\'s brilliant. So I think it was from \"The 4-Hour Workweek\" actually by Tim Ferris. If I remember, and, that was probably what planted the seed. And then I also read a book by a guy who later became a coach of mine, Rob Moore, called \"Life Leverage\", and he again, talked about Outsourcing. And then I went through, an agency and hired a remote worker, not from the Philippines, from somewhere in India actually. But I was paying them sort of like paying them for like 10 hours work and they did to work for me.
And that sort of went terribly, and then eventually I did a course which actually helped explain how to hire people specifically from the Philippines. And then I went, okay, go, and then I ended up building my own recruitment system. Specifically for the Philippines. And so like for like hiring individual people to work with me, it\'s worked really well. And I\'ve got examples of like, one of my clients, you just think about your example of like hiring a team.
Like they\'ve literally shifted over the years I\'ve worked together with them. They\'ve shifted like 70% of their entire operations now very small business. They\'ve got about 12 employees, but like six or seven of them are in the Philippines.
And all of the operational stuff is run there. Like, that\'s where, that\'s the almost like inverted commas, the brain of the operations is based over there. And then the people on the ground, the people that have to be on the ground this doing physical things within in the UK. But yeah, so much so yeah. This is why I\'m excited about speaking to you. Because I\'m being a total advocate. And for someone like you who\'s living and breathing it every day and working with much bigger organizations as well than I typically work with. Just fascinating to see how this is, how the, what the opportunities are going forward.
Cool. Okay. So. I know there\'s a story I\'ve, from your story, there\'s a why behind the Philippines from a personal perspective. But if you know somebody like me, I could pick any country in the world. Like remote workers are remote worker. So why do you think like the Philippines makes sense? What is it about people from the Philippines about their attitudes, their culture, whatever that actually make it just work? Whereas maybe in some other cultures when you know, Europe, hiring from outside of Europe, so to speak, or America hiring outside America. Like why does some, why do Philippines work better than others?
Nicolas Bivero: Well, I mean, to be fair, I don\'t even know if you can always say it works better. I think Filipinos, like any culture, have certain strengths. But they also have certain weaknesses.
And I guess it, it really comes down to what is the problem you\'re trying to solve as an organization, as a company. And then if that problem is a specific problem where Filipino talent and the Filipino mindset and attitude can really be a strength. Then it makes sense to actually go with the Philippines or look into the Philippines.
But to be honest, I think there are great people in other locations. I mean, if you, I mean, South America could be, has great people. South Africa has great people. India has great people. I mean every economy has something. And I think the Philippines in particular, it\'s a combination of the location, so the time zone can be very helpful.
So for some clients and for some companies, that\'s really what they\'re looking for. When they\'re trying to build like 24/7 operations, follow the sun kind of principle. The culture itself, Filipinos are very warm, very embracing. The history having been many hundreds of years of Spanish colony and them being for 60 years an American colony. And the whole schooling system being based on the American system, originally.
So that also helps obviously with the English and the exposure. So it\'s the, I mean, I might be biased or I\'m definitely biased. But it\'s most likely the most westernized Southeast Asian culture that, that you have in Southeast Asia. I mean, because of the whole exposure they had. I mean, they, their favorite sport is basketball. So that already tells you a lot. And not, yeah, NBA. So it is, there are certain cultural traits from their history, from their exposure, from the colony time. That has made them very able to integrate into certain types of operations in certain roles very seamlessly. Specifically roles where you require a lot of empathy and warmth and, welcomeness.
That\'s why they\'re so good in customer support, customer success, being good team players. There are other roles, also, to be very fair, where I would not necessarily recommend Filipinos to start with. I mean, if you want some really hardcore cold calling salespeople. Yes, you can build that in the Philippines. But it\'s maybe not what Filipinos like to do the most, chasing people and harassing peoples.
So maybe not the best thing to do from the Philippines. Maybe you have other countries where people are more keen in those type of roles. So, so I think it really comes down to what is the problem you\'re trying to solve in your organization for which you need talent. And then checking if Filipino talent is a good fit for that, you know, for that role, for, that, for what you\'re trying to build.
And maybe it isn\'t, there are maybe you\'re building something where you\'re better off with, south Africans or Indians or South Americans or, yeah. I mean specifically if you want Spanish speakers.
Dr Steve Day: Yeah. Great answer by the way. And I think that, one of the, these are sweeping generalizations, of course. Absolutely. And we\'re saying we\'re, like, in this conversation, we\'re talking about an entire population of a nation of millions and millions of people. And we\'re saying they, they\'re this fit. Which of course there are exceptions to every rule, and there are people of one extreme to the other in within this.
But I agree with you that from experience of working with South Africa, a couple of people from South Africa, South America, India, Scandinavia, and from the Philippines. You do seem to see traits of the same types of the like good at certain things, terrible at other things like. And the same challenge if you get. And just thinking about those cultural challenges, like what, as working with a remote team.
You obviously have to be aware and empathetic towards the cultural needs or the cultural differences between yourself and the country you\'re working with. So what do you, have you seen that has been a challenge? And maybe what has been, you mentioned some benefits already of the personality that. But what are those challenges of working with people from the Philippines, from a cultural perspective? And how do you help your clients overcome them?
Nicolas Bivero: Yeah, I mean, one of the challenges, so it\'s like all like, like I mentioned before, I mean their strength can also be a weakness. So when you are very warm, very kind, very embracing as a culture. And this is obviously generalization. But most Filipinos fit that then that attitude of want to embrace, let\'s say your coworkers or even your bosses, your organization. And make everybody happy can also backfire. Because then maybe, you know, that\'s outspoken as you, as your boss maybe wants you to be. Or the company. Or, the CEO. Whoever is sitting somewhere else. They might also expect a certain degree of, bluntness that Filipinos may be not as comfortable with.
And so there is, then immediately a culture gap that we try to mitigate by doing that type of like proper onboarding. Okay. How do you work with a Filipino team and vice versa? How do you Filipino work with, let\'s say a British boss or an American boss or an Australian boss. Or wherever your boss is from. Because there is a cultural gap. There is a communication difference. And it is important to try to help mitigate that through learning exposure and other ways.
Even what we do also is we actually get in touch with our employees. Try to get the Filipino to Filipino that information to feed it back to our clients. So that we can also help in the backend a little bit mitigate those challenges. Because Filipinos, as I said, very warm. But they don\'t necessarily want to then, you know, say bad things about you or, tell you like, listen, you are, you\'re killing me here. You\'re overworking me. Give me gimme a little bit of more time.
Instead, they would just say like, yes, okay, I will do it. But then it fails. And then the other person gets frustrated. Especially in the, European context, I guess, sometimes, I mean, I\'m half German and then the German would say like, well, why didn\'t you tell me?
If you would\'ve told me, we could have talked about it. You know, so, so that type of cultural difference is really something where we try to help bridge that. And a lot of that is actually also by explaining and exposure. You know, keep explaining, keep reminding It takes time. Yeah.
Dr Steve Day: Yeah, that\'s something I\'ve experienced many occasions and on occasion become very frustrated by. As someone just saying yes. Even though they totally know, or, you think they would know that there\'s no chance this\'s gonna get done.
They\'ve got a mountain of work, you know, it\'s sky high and yet there\'s still the, inability to push back. So it\'s actually one of the key things that I work at training anyone that works with me, who\'s specifically from the Philippines. But any anywhere else as well. Is like, the permission to push back. The permission to say no.
And also, not only that, the expectation that you will say no, otherwise, I\'m gonna blame you when it goes wrong. So like, flip it around like that is something. So I completely, hear that I\'ve experienced it. And, but also if you\'re aware of it, like you do, like having, taking the time to consciously think about how can I help this manager, this, employer. And also how can I help the employee to understand those differences.
If you\'re doing that, I mean, I do it for myself. But you are doing it helping people directly, which is fantastic. To actually not expect people just to get it and understand it.
Nicolas Bivero: People. You, can\'t, I mean, I think that is when you are gonna set yourself up to fail. Doesn\'t matter if you hire one person, if you hire a whole team. You will, if you\'re expecting people to act exactly the same in the way you are in your culture. Then you\'re gonna set up your, you, you\'re setting yourself up to failure. I think it\'s very important to, to be aware of those cultural nuances and cultural differences. And try to work with them instead of working against them. I mean it\'s, easier said than done.
But, once you get over that, as you said yourself, once you do that. Have those conversations and turn things a little bit or change a little bit to things, then it can be super successful. And, there\'s enough proof in the Philippines and in other countries that it can be really, really successful to have remote teams.
But if you go in there, let\'s say again using the example of a half German. If you go in there with your mindset like, oh, we\'re going to do this the German way, then you\'re gonna, you\'re gonna fail. I mean, this is not gonna happen. Yeah. But I think that would also fail even if you hire somebody in Romania or Czech Republic or wherever, you know. Because it\'s, you can\'t go with your culture and try to, impose that on a different culture.
It\'s not gonna work. Yeah. This is my opinion.
Dr Steve Day: Totally agree. But I also think it\'s, regardless if you use the word culture or like where someone\'s from, just thinking about personality types. I mean the word that\'s like DISC modeling or whatever. Like the, Myers-Briggs or whatever you\'re looking at with regards to personality typing.
Like when you understand that how people think is different and you understand that their needs are different. And therefore how you communicate with them will get you a better result. Or sorry, if you communicate them for a specific, in a specific way, you\'ll get a better result. I mean, that\'s just good human being, a good human. Like actually utilizing the skills we have as communicators to be able to adapt it to the situation.
And that\'s, this is no different. It\'s just taking on board that there are differences that may be cultural. But actually it\'s just the same. Like we just need to be aware of the person we\'re speaking. What the needs are, the person we\'re speaking to, to get the best result we can.
Nicolas Bivero: No, I agree with you. I mean, and I think what we have seen over the last 11 years is that those organizations and those managers who are more sensitive to that or more aware of that. I mean, people who say like, listen, it, I, because what you say is true, let\'s say British company.
British company, even if you hire a whole team in, England, those people will all be slightly different. They wouldn\'t, they\'re not all the same. And if you manage those differences by be by proactively. And you approach the same attitude when building a remote team that\'s gonna, that\'s gonna be much more successful than if you, say, if you treat them all the same.
So it\'s, I, we have seen the organizations which are much more sensitive to that and aware of that are much more successful than somebody. But I think it\'s also the approach, you know, to Steve, to be very honest. When somebody goes, and looks at remote staffing or remote team as a warm buddy, you know. This is just somebody I need to, you know, do something.
That approach already is likely going to be a problem. But if you look at that, it\'s like, no, no, no. This is an extension of my core team just happens to be across the globe. Yeah. And if you approach that and you try to onboard them to your team the same way as you would onboard somebody that you hire at home, that makes it makes a huge difference.
It makes a huge difference to the employee. But it makes a huge difference also, how you approach the people. And how you start working with them, onboarding them, and, bringing them in into your organization. So it\'s, both being aware of the cultural difference, but it\'s also about how you approach team building itself, you know?
And I think that\'s what we also see can make a huge difference.
Dr Steve Day: Yeah. Absolutely. And I, I\'ve got great, or not great terrible examples of people who have hired, that I\'ve been aware of. Like clients of mine. And they, you speak to them after months or whatever. And this person they\'ve hired who\'s based in Philippines for example, has never met the other team members who are based in the company.
And they\'re literally just like a side thing that you throw work at and it comes back done. And like other extremes are like the guy I talked to about before, a guy called Georges, I\'ve actually interviewed on this podcast about his team. And he\'s the opposite. It\'s like full integration. It\'s like they, everybody is equal.
There\'s no difference between, where somebody\'s based. They have pizza evenings together. They, you know, they do cook-offs. All remotely. It\'s beautiful. I actually had interviewed him on this podcast about the remote team building exercises he does to make it work.
So it\'s a great, great episode to, get some top tips actually from one of my clients, but he excels in that compared to me. Oh yeah.
Nicolas Bivero: No, and it\'s, and if you really wanna be, build a, high quality and high performing team, that\'s, that those integrations are very important. And even more nowadays where you have distributed teams.
And, it\'s interesting. But it\'s funny to see how still people push against it, you know. It\'s like, no, no, no. I\'m gonna just throw it over the fence and expect them to deliver perfectly. I\'m like, how is this gonna work? You know? Anyway, it\'s, fascinating to see what, you have now.
Dr Steve Day: Yeah. I\'m, actually interested to know a little bit more about what you do. Because if we talk about, and sharing brilliant insights. But I think it\'d be, super helpful to actually understand like, what is it you actually do? Who do you help, and how would you help them? Where does the Philippines fit into all this?
Nicolas Bivero: You mean in terms of companies or in terms of?
Dr Steve Day: Yeah. No, I mean, what work do you do? I\'ve obviously, I introduced you as, you know, work, the work you do and you help companies work with Philippines. But explain how that works. Like what is it that you do differently to others. And, just exactly like who do you work with and how do you actually help them build teams?
Nicolas Bivero: Well, I don\'t know if we do things differently than others. I\'m sure there are others who do this, what we do. It\'s, I think what I, what we have been trying to focus on and is always try to understand, okay, what\'s the problem you\'re trying to solve? I mean, what is it that, because again, I know that people are looking for talent.
They\'re looking for people. But they\'re looking for people for a reason. You know, it\'s like, okay, my problem is I\'m scaling and I need more, I need more people to help me with that scale. Or help me deliver my service. Or help me do designs or whatever it is overnight. So it\'s that nuance, which is important towards it and understand. Okay, what is the, challenge you\'re facing and how can Filipino talent fit into that solution that you\'re trying to, that you\'re looking for.
So again, the approach is, it\'s not like I need warm bodies. It\'s like I need people who can really be part of the solution. And part of that, whatever team I\'m trying to build to provide that solution. So understanding that. Understanding then also the nuances of the job description of the work that you\'re trying to, or the talent that you\'re trying to find. Enables us then to do a much better recruitment process. And look at finding the right people who really fit your culture, your must haves, your nice to haves. The tools, the working environment, the hours that you want the people to work.
So it\'s a, more, what we have tried to build and what we have built is a more consultative approach. It\'s not like, hey, I need an accountant. Now, find me somebody who somehow fits this. And then lets some magically try to make it work. It\'s more, okay, you\'re looking for an accountant, but why? You know, what is it?
What is the challenge you\'re really having? What type of accountant would think would help you solve that problem. And then we, try to work with our clients on finding the right person the right fit. It\'s not always perfect and sometimes it takes longer. But then if we find that, and if we are able to then bring that talent in and make it part of our client\'s team.
Ideally, again, not always perfect, but ideally because it\'s a better fit because it\'s, it went more deeper. It will be more successful and it will and, it will last longer, you know. Because, so the, and, the other thing we try to always work with our clients is like, it\'s not a term, a short term solution.
I mean, that might be the case for some specific roles and projects, but it\'s a long term solution. It\'s an extension of your team. So effectively you are also not hiring in England or in Sweden. Somebody for like, oh, I\'m gonna hire somebody just for like three months and then I don\'t care anymore.
No, no. I\'m hiring somebody because I want this person to be part of my next phase of my growth. Or my service delivery, whatever it is. And so if, that mindset is the right mindset, then you will also recruit differently. You will look for somebody that you\'re like, hey, this is the person I feel that I want to have in my team.
And that makes a huge difference. Not only to you, but also to the employee. Employee will feel that during the recruitment process, will feel that during the onboarding process. They, that there\'s a very different engagement if you treat people like that. So it\'s something that we have been trying to build or we\'re working, we\'re still working on.
It\'s never perfect. There\'s always improvements. But it\'s really to build those remote teams that are part of your core team. And therefore you treat them accordingly. We help you then also with setting them up, learning and development, whatever else you need from an HR perspective that we can help, make it a success over time.
Yeah. So, I hope that answers a little bit the question. Yeah. So it\'s, it\'s going a little bit deeper. It\'s trying to understand more of what it is. And then try to solve that problem by providing you the right talent for that solution. Yeah.
Dr Steve Day: Yeah. No, awesome. And I think, yeah, that concept of hiring a what, who is an effective contractor?
If you\'re hiring them as a remote worker, typically you\'re doing on a contract basis or on an employment basis. But what I\'ve, taken on board over the years and what I try to advocate on this podcast, and anyone I work with. Is that exact philosophy of this, think of this as a, long term engagement, just like you would an employee.
Exactly what you\'d just said. And the like, my current social media marketing, she\'s been with me for five and a half years, something like that. Yes, it\'s a long time. Three to five years is a good, like obviously some people don\'t work out and you let them go. But the people that have stuck around with me, they stuck around for years.
And it is so like, it\'s just like having an em is, it is for me, having an employee, it\'s exactly the same experience. Because you get to know this person and grow with them. And they grow with you and they grow with the company. And all the benefits that come from that. So yeah, massively agree with you.
Nicolas Bivero: No, it is an extension of your team. I mean it, and I think that\'s very important because when you have, that mindset and you treat them accordingly. As I said, they will feel that and they will also commit much more to you and to what you\'re doing. Than if they just feel like, oh, I\'m just a warm body.
They don\'t really care about me. They just need me to deliver X, Y, Z. And then what happens afterwards is irrelevant. So that, makes a huge difference. And, you can see that, but I think what, you mentioned there a moment ago is important to understand. You\'re still hiring a human. You\'re still employing somebody.
And that doesn\'t matter if you do this at home, if you do this remotely, if you do this in the Philippines, it\'s not always a hundred percent fit. Sometimes even with the best processes, the best interviews and whatnot. You hire the wrong person. And that ha because it\'s, humans. Some things you only discover after the facts.
And it\'s funny because sometimes we do have clients who say like, oh, but how is this possible? You know, I thought it\'s a hundred percent fit. I\'m like, I\'m sure where you\'re coming from. It\'s never a hundred percent fit. But we try our best to make it as close to a hundred percent as possible, but it\'s will never be a hundred percent.
Some people just don\'t work out. Some people are just not the right vibe or the right chemistry between teams. Right.
Dr Steve Day: Yeah, there\'s a book that I love called, \"Traction\" by Gino Wickman. And he talks about the right person in the right seat. And no matter how good somebody is on paper and how good they are their job, they may just be the wrong person for the company.
Could be a value, a values mismatch, personality mismatch, whatever. Then that can be as important as someone\'s competence. Or it could be the way around that they\'re a brilliant person, but they just can\'t do the job. Then it\'s like, can you find another seat for them? If not, then unfortunately, no matter how good, how nice they are, they\'re probably gonna have to go.
But yeah, like you say, yeah, that\'s true. We\'re dealing with humans, and humans are unpredictable, people or unpredictable entities, I should say. Yeah. Cool. What sort of size companies do you work with? Do you, source like individual workers or just are you looking to build teams within organizations?
Nicolas Bivero: So in, we do both. But in general, most of our clients, specifically when they, are just fresh to the whole building a remote team. They usually start with one, two people because we call it actually proof the concept. So they need to feel confident that the talent is right, that they can build a team, that they are able to work remotely and set it up.
And then what we see over time is that once they get that, that, comfort level with the remote team. And they realize, hey, this works, this is good. The people are nice, you know, this is all, working out better than we expected. Then they start looking at their org chart and then deciding, oh, what about this role?
What about that role? As they grow and as they change, or as they sometimes have people at home who either retire or leave or go to go for new opportunities. They start expanding their teams, and I mean, it really depends. We have some clients who decided to really go very, vertical into like one specific type of role, like only accounting or only marketing or only something.
But then we have more often than not companies who started with that but then realize, hey, what about. This thing or that thing. And then they went horizontal across the organization chart, which is just really, exciting. It\'s similar to what you said about that other company a while ago that has like 60% of their team in the Philippines.
It\'s like that wouldn\'t happen. If you, under enormous circumstances, if you only hire in one specific department, one specific role, that can only happen if you go and say like, oh, okay, now I need a marketing person. Well, let me look for marketing over there. Or now I need, a graphic designer. Lemme look for graphic designers.
So, so, and that\'s, to me is actually exciting because then you see over time, companies growing and evolving and when you look deeper, you\'re like, Hey, actually a very large amount of your business is. Done by Filipinos in the Philippines. That\'s pretty cool. You know? that\'s, that\'s, great for the Philippines.
It\'s great for the people and it\'s, and it\'s, actually exciting to see. At least I get excited about that.
Dr Steve Day: And there is, you know, not to shy away from it, there is massive cost benefits typically, but most companies absolutely hiring from the Philippines because the, cost of living is significantly lower than many countries like US or UK or Europe in general.
And so actually, like, and I was speaking to someone today, like they\'re just about to. Start hiring for their first role. And the role that, that we\'re discussing them hiring for is what I call the autopilot architect role. And this is somebody\'s who basically does, what I do as a, in effect in one of my roles as a process consultant.
So I help people to understand how to get the things in their head down a way that other people can build for them. Okay. And, whether it\'s the, key personnel in the business or the expert knowledge, knowledgeable workers in the business or the business owner often as well. If they haven\'t quite elevated themselves to a CEO role yet, they\'re still sort of holding everything together and it\'s how do we interview that person, create or document the systems that can then be either automated or AI or just systemized.
And so what we\'re now in this particular role, we\'re like. Hiring this person to do that role. So it\'s not like they\'re coming in as like an admin person, whatever. It\'s like we\'re trying to find, we\'ve, sorry, much success, with this in the past as well, of hiring this specific, role from the Philippines and bringing them in to actually help the companies a, completely different role. And, reason I say this is because often like people think about, okay, I\'ve got this, Replacing somebody in the business or whatever.
But actually there is opportunities, I think to utilize, especially because of the affordability to, bring somebody in, say, from the Philippines to be a role which you wouldn\'t necessarily have hired for otherwise. And so this role is often one which is just left to the business owner to deal with. And so, but actually because of the cost, we can say, look, we can actually hire somebody in to be this integrator that helps you to create the systems, which doesn\'t, they don\'t really have a role in terms of, they\'re not in the marketing team.
They\'re not in the sales team. Okay. They are in the operations team, but it\'s more about this fitting everything together. And the same thing with the other end of the scale is like the admin person is like bringing in a, what I call an assistant or an admin to support all of the key work people in your company.
Suddenly they can then start delegating down all the stuff that they shouldn\'t be doing to elevate themselves up. Those I think are really great ways for people to actually look beyond the typical roles as well of like how do we actually like compliment our existing team by bringing in this talent from the Philippines to actually fill these obvious gaps when you actually look at it.
But sometimes hidden gaps because they\'re just sort of problems in the company we don\'t know how to fix and suddenly you can actually get people just focusing on fixing these problems. So. Yeah.
Nicolas Bivero: No, I think it\'s, I think it\'s, we have seen that and, it, is partially the, I mean, the affordability, I think as you called it, is what makes that possible, where you can look at it and say like, well, we have had this conversation with a few clients where we said like, okay.
Come up with your dream role. Like what is it? What is it? If you would have the money, what would you hire, what would be super helpful for you? And then they come up with a task list or even a, job description, and, then they get surprised. They\'re like, wait, you can, so let me give an example.
We had a client who had built a whole team of, not with us. They had in the US they had a team of salespeople using a new CRM system, but he was highly frustrated about like the CRM and then the salespeople have been to do a lot of like fixing of the CRM and what. And while my feedback was like, why don\'t you get a CRM and administrator?
His feedback was like, well that\'s highly, because we had accountants for him already. And he is like, well, that\'s so expensive. I\'m like, well, maybe if you look at it and you give us a job description, we can look at it in the Philippines and let\'s see what we find. And then way and behold we found somebody at a fraction of the cost and he is like, oh no, for that.
Yes, then I can hire that and I can hire somebody else and I can do, so it\'s, that, but it\'s that eye-opener only comes when you start looking at it. And I think. The other way of looking affordability is even in a different direction because let\'s say you have a budget. Let\'s say you budgeted for 2026 to hire another sales person.
Let\'s stay with sales. But if you then look at, Hey, if I do this, let\'s say remotely, regardless if it\'s a Philippines or South America or South Africa, or whatever, how much would that person cost me? That talent cost me? How much of my budget is then still left that I can utilize for other things?
And then what we sometimes see is people say like, huh, interesting. Okay, maybe let me hire two people, or let me hire one of those, and one of another role that I actually would like to have, but that I don\'t have the budget to have. But now suddenly I do have the budget. So it\'s, interesting to play around with that affordability, as an, idea of filling either more roles or getting more done with, a different way of.
Looking at talent or choosing talent? Yeah, it\'s, or, structuring the talent. It\'s, it\'s interesting. I mean, but the Philippines is not only affordability. I think the Philippines goes beyond that because the Philippines is such a large economy, I mean, developing economy, but nonetheless quite large and 110 million people.
You do have a lot of talent. You do have a lot of people who are able to do something that you don\'t necessarily have in other countries. I mean, here in, current in Germany, there\'s half a million people retiring every year. There\'s not enough young people coming in to actually replace all those roads.
So it\'s almost like, is affordability really always the most important thing? Maybe actually pure availability is the most important one for some companies. Like, actually, I don\'t care if I have to pay the money, I just want somebody to do it. You know? So it\'s, not always avail, affordability. It can also be availability or available at certain.
Hours that people in your home country are not willing to do anymore, you know, and, so on and so forth. So there\'s very, there\'s different angles of why a remote team, regardless if it\'s Philippines or anywhere else, can be attractive and can be, and can help a lot, to the, to an organization.
Yeah.
Dr Steve Day: Yeah. And I think attitude comes into it as well. Also forgot. Yeah. True. I know so many of our clients, they\'ve, they\'ve struggled, especially since Brexit in the UK, they really struggled to fill a lot of the roles, just because people don\'t wanna do it for whatever reason, or they don\'t like, they just, yeah, they have an attitude towards work, which is different than it was maybe 20 years ago.
And actually, what I, my experience in the, in from working with people from the Philippines is the opposite. It\'s like they. In many ways grateful for the opportunity to work still, and they actually really have a high amount. If you treat them well, they will treat you well and their loyalty is. Like uncomparable with say the UK where people are switching jobs just because, you know, the change of weather or whatever, you know, and, that\'s not what, again, generalization here, but that\'s generally not what I see.
It\'s actually the person will put up with a lot when, because they actually want the company to succeed. They, become a part of. Not just the team, but they become a part of the success. And that\'s an attitude thing that they get involved with that from quite quickly. And I\'ve seen that time and time again, both for myself, but also with, with my clients as well.
So, yeah.
Nicolas Bivero: Yeah, it\'s a, it\'s an attitude and it\'s a cultural thing because there is an element in the Philippines of, this, we are all in the same boat. We\'re all in the same kind of, almost like. Family kind of setup. So we all do this together. That can also sometimes not be the best, but it is, it does make a difference because you work with people who really, under normal circumstances, are very committed and very engaged and are, as committed as you might be in the success of the organization and in success of the whole, of, what you\'re doing.
Which is great. You know, you\'re, they, That commitment makes a big difference. So yeah, it\'s, we have seen great things there.
Dr Steve Day: On the flip side of that is a, there\'s a slight negative of experience because of that and because of the, how loyal they are to their teammates as well.
That actually when, if you do have to let people go. You have to do it very carefully, not just for the person you\'re letting go, but at the remaining team and be very mindful of the effect that person\'s departure will have on the, their mindset. And, that\'s something that I\'ve, experienced and done wrong in the past, but learned over the years to actually be hugely mindful of that.
Nicolas Bivero: Well, it goes, back to what I said at the beginning. It\'s like, your positive traits can also flip into a negative side. So if you look at your team. Your company, almost like your extended family, then you can understand that if somebody of your extended family is being fired, you will not be very happy.
You know, and it will frustrate you or sadden you and, create all kinds of doubts. And it, that\'s an important part of, management of expectations and managing of that change. That, I think sometimes gets underestimated specifically by certain other. Non Filipino cultures where letting people go is kind of like very normal.
It\'s like, Hey, well, you know, didn\'t work out. Thank you so much. Like, see you later in the pub. Then in the Philippines, they\'re like, oh my God, how can you do this? You know, it\'s like this. So that needs to be managed. That\'s fair. And, again, that warmth and that commitment. And then become a little bit of a problem.
But I think it\'s that problem is always solvable as long as you\'re transparent and communicate co correctly. Yeah. In that particular case, actually be communicating is very important instead of so over communicating, instead of under communicating, it becomes important. But that\'s what I mentioned is like.
That is part of, in our case, the consultative approach is part of what we try to explain to our clients and, when the situation happens and they do happen, that somebody doesn\'t work out or that a, certain part of the team needs to be changed. So when that happens, we. We make it clear like, hey, let\'s, create a plan.
Let\'s create an action plan on how we\'re approaching this. How do we explain this to the rest of the team? And so on and so forth, so it doesn\'t backfire. And that\'s an important part of that bridge building between the Philippines and other cultures. Yeah.
Dr Steve Day: Yeah, a hundred percent. Is there, have you experienced a.
Limit on the type or the level of role I should say that works well with in the remote setting, whether it\'s from the Philippines or otherwise. It\'s like what I\'m thinking here is, so operations manager, C-Suite, that sort of thing. Do you, still, do you often fill positions at that level or is it more sort of the next level down?
The people that are actually doing the work, so to speak.
Nicolas Bivero: It\'s usually one level down. But that\'s more because those levels are honestly already quite rare in any organization. I mean, you only have one CEO by default, and the C-suite is usually not too big unless you are multinational, then that\'s a different story.
And so by definition, those are not really, they\'re not many of those roles I think. And also my experiences with myself, with my experience and looking at my clients is those are usually roles where the owners, the founders, whoever it is, want those people around them. They want to touch them, they want to talk to them, they wanna go into a meeting room.
And that obviously becomes quite difficult when it\'s remote. It doesn\'t mean it cannot be done. And we have actually seen senior people being hired in the Philippines. But it\'s, I wouldn\'t say it\'s standard, it\'s not common, you know, it\'s, more the, it\'s more the exception and the standard, but everything below that, from controllers to senior leaders, whatnot, that report to that top management that we have, we do and we fill and we have been quite successful.
But I think like anywhere in the world, the higher you go in that pyramid, the more rarer the talent becomes and also the more expensive it becomes. So then, so, and the. The affordability also starts shrinking in the sense the gap between a very, very senior person in England and a very, very senior person with the same skillset in the, Philippines.
It, actually shrinks quite dramatically because there is not that many in the Philippines. Yeah. So, so, in that moment, you really need to think, well, well, do I want to save that 30% and have it remote, or do I want to have that heat with me next to me? But then on the next layer. Save more and be more flexible with my team building.
So this is that\'s more of organizational, planning, to, figure out what\'s the most suitable there. Yeah. So yeah, the reason there\'s a organizational mapping, I think it\'s what the right name is the right word for that. The, business word. I think it\'s mapping, but anyway, whatever.
It doesn\'t matter.
Dr Steve Day: Yeah. Anyway, so the reason I, ask the question is because a role that I currently am actually looking to fill, or will be in the near future. And also one that often gets asked by my clients is this operations manager type role. This person, like when you are a small business and you are just trying to step out, you\'re not quite at the level of needing a COO.
You, you are still gonna basically be the integrator, visionary type role in the company. But you just want somebody to be able to take full responsibility and be accountable for operations for, like the hiring, the organization of the team. But also actually understanding the, how the whole business works.
But at that sort of, yeah, operations manager role. And that\'s where I was thinking like, is it, if you\'ve seen a lot of successes in that, and if so, like. What is it like when you say that the differential in the wage gap, for example. Is that kind of role actually significantly more expensive than saying hiring a, I know a good, marketing person or something?
Or is that a similar sort of level?
Nicolas Bivero: No, I think so. The expense is actually not really the question here. I think you will, the gap is still a gap. I mean, it\'s, and I think an, like a person like that in England or in Australia, wherever. Will also be quite expensive because again, you\'re looking, at somebody who can be like a deputy and run operations for you.
I think the bigger challenge for me to make it successful or to see if it can be successful is more trying to understand, well, where does this operation actually happen? If most of the team that executes the operation is actually not in the Philippines, then a Filipino in that position. Will struggle just because, okay, so you\'re in the Philippines, but you\'re trying, you\'re managing a team in England that\'s kind of like not going to be that easy if the execution is happening in England.
If on the other hand we have seen the successfully happening with companies who have built actually the, operational delivery in the Philippines. And then you have a local manager, actually there is the opposite, if you have most of the operational delivery in the Philippines, but the operational manager is overseas.
That actually creates a gap and a disconnect, which, can backfire on you. So we have some different ways of bridging that. I mean, it can be that the COO is still overseas, but then the deputy of that person is then in the Philippines and runs the day-to-day operational side or, even in software delivery.
We have also seen that where the CTO is overseas, but then the number two. That runs the daily standups and the daily, you know, whatever communication that needs to happen is done in the Philippines. Because it\'s an easier to manage than if that person is also overseas. So I think it really comes down to how is your operation actually structured and where are the people who are delivering that day in, day out, sitting.
So I think in that particular role, it\'s actually looking at, well. Do I need that person close to where the operation\'s being executed? Or can this person be remote and how do I make that happen? And then it\'s the skillset that you need to find. Yeah, I, don\'t have a perfect answer for you. I think that\'s really, it\'s a case by case, kind of, approach.
Yeah.
Dr Steve Day: No, no, I think that was a, brilliant answer actually.
Nicolas Bivero: It\'s like, take me for example. Okay. Yeah. I mean, I, my operations are fully in the Philippines. I would not hire a COO or a VP of operations, or whatever you wanna call it in Germany. That person is, I\'m gonna set that person up to failure and I\'m gonna set up my team in the Philippines up for failure. Because there is just that, gap of time and space that will make it very hard.
And it\'s not because this person cannot manage from an intellectual or, experience that. It\'s just that because of operations, all my recruitment, all my onboarding, all my hr, all of those things are executed in the Philippines. I personally think in that moment, I need this person to be over there.
Yeah. That would be a my take. Yeah.
Dr Steve Day: And when you talk about having your sort of team base in the Philippines, is this a everybody in the same office or is it remotely spread out across the Philippines? Are people working in their own environments or are they coming to an office and they\'re being managed centrally?
Nicolas Bivero: We have both. So that really comes down to the client\'s requirements. So we have clients who require everybody to be in the office five days a week. And so we provide that. We have clients who are with a hybrid setting, meaning to say three days in at home, two days in the office. Or we have some who actually say, hey, we only meet once a month, but once a month we all gather and then, you know, do, lunch and whatever.
So we facilitate all that and then we, but we do have about 70% of our clients who are fully remote. They\'re like, listen, my team is remote already, so if they are now remote from home, that\'s fine. That\'s not a problem. Now that makes our life not easier. That makes our life actually more complicated. Because we still need to make sure they\'re all taken care of and all fine and all good and all this, and then we need to do re online engagement activities and whatnot.
So it actually sounds easy on paper. But having everybody in the office is actually easier when it comes to engagement and, more and, talking to people, but yeah. But it\'s really telling to the clients, and their preference.
Dr Steve Day: Yeah. No. Brilliant. Oh, fascinating. I\'ve, loved this. I\'ve loved this interview.
I knew I would, I hoped I would. But, this has been incredibly insightful and just to think about, yeah, the next level compared to where I\'m at. And actually, I\'m gonna share this recording with a couple of my clients before it even gets released. Because I think they\'ll be very interested to hear how you are facilitating this. And how you are running this and the successes that you\'ve, shared and yeah, I think this has been brilliant. So thank you very much.
Nicolas Bivero: No, thank you so much for having me. And anytime. I\'m happy. We\'re happy to help anytime. Yeah, so it\'s, we\'re very, very vested into the success of Filipino remote teams.
Not because that\'s my business, but because really Filipinos are really good and I think many times under appreciated a little bit in the global market of the talent they have and the capabilities they have. You know, as I said at the beginning, I mean, people normally know about Filipino nurses and Filipino cleaning ladies and Filipino seafarers, but there\'s so much more and they\'re really, really good.
And as you said yourself, and they\'re really committed. They\'re great team members.
Dr Steve Day: Yeah, no, fantastic. If you wanna find out more about how you can help them to build a team, like how can they best get in touch with Nicolas?
Nicolas Bivero: Well, we have the webpage and then obviously, I mean, me and my colleagues. But, I mean, you can find me on LinkedIn and just shoot me a message and we will get in touch.
Yeah. Cool. And the web, the webpage is. Good point. It\'s penbrothers.com. Yeah.
Dr Steve Day: So yeah, P-E-N, penbrothers.com. And then your LinkedIn profile is, say, let you say it. Because I always say the name wrong.
Nicolas Bivero: Nicolas Bivero. Yeah.
Dr Steve Day: Bivero. It\'s a B-I-V-E-R-E-R-O.
Nicolas Bivero: Yeah. It\'s a Spanish name. Yeah.
Dr Steve Day: Ah, perfect. Cool. I do have one question to ask you before you go.
Absolutely. The name of this podcast is Systemize Your Success, but what does success mean to you and why?
Nicolas Bivero: For me personally, because I\'m older than most people give me credit, success is actually, you know, knowing that you\'re doing the right things and doing them correctly and being okay with that.
You know, it\'s, I think for me, that\'s what success looks like nowadays.
Dr Steve Day: Fantastic. I like it. Short and sweet. Nicolas, thank you so much for sharing your knowledge and expertise. And yeah, hopefully opening the eyes of some of our listeners to what is truly possible with working with remote teams.
So thank you very much.
Nicolas Bivero: No, thank you so much for having me.
VALUABLE RESOURCES (For Hiring Remote Teams)
- Our Best Guides, Frameworks, and Templates—for our flagship Recruit Right Framework: https://sys.academy/guides
LINKS TO CONNECT WITH THE GUEST
- Website: https://penbrothers.com/
- LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nicolasbivero/
ABOUT THE GUEST
Over the last 10 years, Penbrothers has been built in the Philippines with the mission to help start-ups and SME drive growth, reduce operational costs, and optimise staffing efficiency. Penbrothers achieves this by building tailored remote teams and aligning the recruitment process to the needs of each client. By building teams in the Philippines, our clients leverage the deep, highly skilled labour pool, enabling them to scale smarter and improve their bottom line.
LINKS TO CONNECT WITH THE HOST
- Podcast: https://www.systemizeyoursuccess.com
- Website: https://systemsandoutsourcing.com/
- Facebook Group: https://facebook.com/groups/systemsandoutsourcing/
- LinkedIn: https://linkedin.com/company/systemsandoutsourcing/
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- YouTube: https://youtube.com/@drsteveday42
- TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@drsteveday42
ABOUT THE HOST
Steve moved to Sweden in 2015 and transformed how he ran his businesses—switching to a fully remote model. A former NHS doctor, with a background in computing and property investing, he now helps overwhelmed business owners systemise and outsource effectively. Additionally, through his courses and coaching, Steve teaches how to automate operations and work with affordable virtual assistants, freeing up time and increasing profits. He runs his UK-based businesses remotely with support from a team of UK and Filipino VAs. He is also passionate about helping others build scalable, stress-free companies using smart systems and virtual support.
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