🎙️ Sales strategies don’t need pressure to work. Discover a service-driven selling approach that builds trust, clarity, and sustainable revenue without compromising integrity.
For a long time, selling didn’t sit right with me.
Asking people for their hard-earned money felt… off.
Uncomfortable.
Almost impolite.
And I know I’m not alone in that.
Most new business owners don’t struggle with the work.
They struggle with the moment they have to put a price on it.
Because somewhere along the way, sales picked up a bad reputation.
Pressure.
Manipulation.
Big promises that don’t get delivered.
In this week’s conversation, I sat down with Andee Hart—a sales coach who’s spent years inside corporate sales and now helps founders sell in a very different way.
What stood out wasn’t tactics.
Or scripts.
Or clever closes.
It was a shift in how sales are approached altogether.
Not starting with “How do I close this?”
But with “How can I genuinely help this person?”
When that becomes the anchor, something changes.
The conversation softens.
The pressure lifts.
And clarity replaces awkwardness.
We also talk about something many founders wrestle with quietly:
Selling before you feel “ready.”
When your offer isn’t perfect yet.
When you know it will be better—but it isn’t there today.
And when perfection becomes the reason you wait.
Andee shares how she’s navigated that tension—without compromising integrity or value.
This isn’t about pushing harder.
Or convincing anyone of anything.
It’s about selling in a way that feels clean.
Honest.
And sustainable.
🎧 Listen to the full conversation.
If sales have ever felt heavy—or like something you wished you could avoid—this episode might help you see it differently.
KEY TAKEAWAYS: Service-Driven Sales Strategies for Sustainable Growth
- Sell from A Place of Service: Sales get easy when the goal of every conversation is to understand and help the person in front of you, rather than “close the deal.”
- Only Work with the Right Clients: Saying “no” to clients that are a poor fit for what you offer protects your energy, avoids disappointment for them, builds trust, referrals, and your long‑term reputation.
- Launch Early: Perfectionism stalls growth. Instead, put viable offers into the world, label them honestly as beta or founder’s rounds, and ask for structured feedback. That real‑world input is what takes a 60% product to 100% faster than building in isolation.
- Design Culture That Rewards Integrity: Whether in a big sales team or a small business, when rewards and recognition favour long-term customer success rather than this month’s quota, your team naturally chooses right‑fit, ethical solutions.
BEST MOMENTS: Sales Strategies That Change How You Show Up
06:27 – 💬 “It’s not asking for money, it’s providing them with value.” — Andee Hart
13:22 – 💬 “Face-to-face selling is very different from written communication – your messaging matters even more.” — Andee Hart
25:31 – 💬 “Only accept the right clients into your business – every wrong client you accept is a massive drain on energy, resources, and time.” — Steve Day
TIMESTAMPED OVERVIEW
00:00 Intro: “Authentic, Service-Oriented Selling Insights”
04:02 Overcoming Sales Discomfort
17:30 Automating Sales Processes
32:34 Sales Culture
41:36 Launching and Improving Products
Episode Transcript
Please note: This transcript was generated using automated transcription tools and may contain typographical errors or inaccurately captured words or phrases.
Dr Steve Day: It took me years to become comfortable with the idea of selling my products and services. Of asking people for their hard earned cash, of taking that from them. And then hopefully delivering them massive value in return.
Today I interview an amazing sales coach. Her name is Andee Hart. And she runs a podcast called \"She Sells Differently\". And also has a coaching program all around authentic ethical sales. She has a brilliant mindset around this with 17 years of experience of working in corporate sales and moving into running her own business. And then becoming the sales person for the figurehead for that business. And now, coaching other business owners on selling their products and services.
What I love about Andee\'s approach is it comes from a place of service. Of starting every sales conversation, not with the end in mind of, and how am I gonna close this deal. But how can I help this person. And then the sale becomes natural. It becomes effortless, and it also becomes enjoyable. That you feel like it\'s a win-win for both of you. And that is exactly the type of selling that I love to do and that\'s why I really enjoyed this interview.
I got a lot from it. I learned a new, few new tricks. And it was also a great opportunity to discuss what I\'ve learned over the years about selling, both good and bad. Enjoy.
Hi Andee. Thank you so much for coming on the show. I am really excited about this. We\'re just talking off, off.
Andee Hart: Thank you so much for having me. I\'m excited to be here.
Dr Steve Day: Cool. Sorry, I interrupted you saying, saying hello too. I was just saying like just before we came on, like the conversations I love having are ones where I feel like I\'m gonna get a lot of benefit from having this conversation. And sales is something that I believe you are quite, good at and help people do. And, it\'s one of the areas which I feel, whether it\'s the marketing or the sales or the products, like I\'m not bad at it. But I know I can be better.
And so I\'m excited about this conversation. Because I think I\'m gonna learn a lot from this and in, in having a very open and honest conversation about the challenges that I face. And hopefully that you can add some help and insights to that. Then that will hopefully help listeners as well. And you can bring in anything that you know is gonna help the people who are listening to this alongside anything that I might bring up. How does that sound?
Andee Hart: Sounds perfect. Yes. I think you\'re, not alone. I was gonna say, I think you\'re not alone. But I know you\'re not alone. Because there are so many people that I talk to every day that when I tell them I\'m in sales. They just cringe and they shy away and say, I hate sales. But it\'s just a natural part of every day of our lives. And so it\'s important to talk about whether you carry a quota or whatever industry you\'re in. So I\'m glad that you are addressing it on your podcast.
Dr Steve Day: Absolutely. And also like I think I come from a place of, like you just described. Like apps, like some people absolutely hate sales, and I was one of those people. Like, it was, felt like I was doing something wrong, asking people for money. And like, that it wasn\'t, appropriate or polite. And for that reason, like I think the early days I struggled with it internally massively, and you know, that was 10 years ago now. So I have come a long way since then.
But I also know for anyone listening to this, who is in that place where it almost feels like, you know, you shouldn\'t have to ask for the money. But like how do people, how do you help people overcome that position of maybe you\'ve never had to sell anything before. And you are just selling for the first time. Or maybe you are increasing your prices to a place, you start feeling uncomfortable. Like those big steps that you take through business. Like how do you help people get over that initial challenge and then make those incremental changes on the way forward?
Andee Hart: Yeah. So let\'s start back at what you, something you just said. You mentioned, you know, several years ago you were one of those people. And you said, I didn\'t like asking people for money. It felt weird. It felt awkward. And so I think it\'s important to address why we feel uncomfortable. And no one in sales really talks about this. But a lot of times we have had experiences.
First off, it\'s, you know, culture often tells us that it\'s uncomfortable to ask people for money. And then we\'ve had experiences where we have been sold to where we have been asked for money. And what we\'ve been asked for and what we\'ve been promised, there\'s been a big delta. There\'s been a big gap there. And so we have been left feeling that we have not gotten the value that we were pro promised. And so we were sold something and then we weren\'t delivered on the results, and so what happens as a result of that?
That happens time and time again. Then, we are thinking as human beings, we\'re like, I don\'t want to be that person or to give that experience to someone else. That poor experience. And leave that bad taste in someone else\'s mouth. And I think we\'ve all come through that, whether we\'re buying a car or we\'re shopping for an appliance or, you know, fill in the blank.
Right. And so, that just over time can lead to you being afraid to sell your product or your service. And something that I always tell my clients over and over again, when you have a product or a service that brings people value, then you actually owe it to share it with them. But when you are sharing the transformation, then really, the asking for money, it\'s not asking for money.
And this is where the mindset shift happens. It\'s not asking for money. It\'s providing them with value. And at the end of the day, they are actually handing over their money. Because they want what you can provide. If you have done the sales process right. And so that\'s where I think a lot of people miss. But also, and we, can talk about this in a minute, the sales process doesn\'t end there. And that\'s what I think culture, you know, our culture teaches us. Is that the sales process leaves when the money exchanges hands. And that is the missing piece that we want to then deliver on what we have promised, and deliver an exceptional customer experience.
And so that is all about what I talk about in my company, \"She Sells Differently\". Because we want to learn how to sell and deliver an excellent customer experience. And quite honestly, in today\'s modern society, it\'s all about give me the money. And then here\'s some form of what I promised, and that\'s, and we\'re out.
Right? So I think it\'s just bad experiences and once you can learn how to provide an excellent experience. And you have no problem, quote, selling what you\'re offering.
Dr Steve Day: Awesome. I\'m gonna dive into a lot of things you just said there, but before I do and I want to take a. Step back and..
Andee Hart: Yeah.
Dr Steve Day: Tell us how you got into all this. Yeah, I wanted to jump in with, I wanted to jump in just to get the, conversation started. But I wanna actually know a little bit more about Andee. Like where did, where did Andee Hart start your journey on becoming the person you are today? And actually tell us what you do now. Because I think it\'s really fascinating. And I love your Instagram site. I was checking out before the show. So yeah, let us know a little bit about you, where you came from, why you do what you do, and why you do what you do now?
Andee Hart: It is so funny, my journey, if you had told me I was gonna be doing what I do now, 10 years ago, I would\'ve laughed. But I am a sales strategist for product-based entrepreneurs. I started during the pandemic, I started a candle company. Hart Design Co., I still have my candle company. And I wholesale my candles to boutiques all over, globally. And so that has been a fun journey.
But I actually started out, when I was in college. I wanted to be a dance teacher. I grew up dancing. I did tap jazz, ballet, all that. And I had a plan my senior year of college, a business plan to start a dance studio in Tennessee, which is, the, where I was born and raised. And I had a professor in college that I recently reconnected with.
And just funny, we got to laugh about this story. But we were on an American Marketing Association trip to Nashville, Tennessee. And we were touring a technology company, a large technology company then. And she, they were interviewing and they said, we have a couple of your alumni that work here. We\'re interviewing right now, so anyone that wants to interview, we know you don\'t have resumes. But you can interview now.
And she made me interview that day, and she said, you\'re gonna interview and you\'ll thank me later. And I was within months, like this was March of my senior year. I was planning on starting my dance studio in May, June. And so I interviewed. Because she made me. Got the job. And just out of, after a lot of prayer and wisdom and counsel just decided to take the job for a year or two. You know, save up some money, get some real world experience.
Realized I\'m actually really good at sales and love it. And 17 years later, I was still in sales. I worked my way up at that company and another technology company that I had started working for. And that is when I, in the meantime, had started my candle company in 2020 and made the jump in 2023 to full-time entrepreneurship.
So it is just funny how we plan our steps and wanted to be a dance teacher. But got into sales, ended up loving it. And, just learned so much about sales, leadership and technology because I worked for two big technology companies. All skills that I needed for what I\'m doing today. And so, yeah, just a kind of a crazy story that led to where I am today as an entrepreneur.
Dr Steve Day: Yeah, very cool. So. I\'m interested though 17 years experience of working as success, successful sales executive in the corporate industry. Yeah. How does that translate to the type of selling you do now being a boutique, small business?
Like do you see like completely transferable skills? Or is there a different art to it when you\'re talking about small versus corporate?
Andee Hart: I would say there\'s a hybrid. It\'s, there are some skills in sales that are just innate and transferable no matter what kind of sales you\'re doing. I think that\'s the tenacity. And the being willing. If what you\'re doing or the approach that you have with a client or how you\'re selling your products or your services. If you\'re messaging, and this is so important, if your messaging is not resonating. Because sometimes it\'s not about your product or your service. It\'s simply about the way you\'re communicating and your messaging.
But if you can just pivot that a little bit and continue to put your product and service out there. What I have found is that it will start to resonate and you will start to hear, yes, yes, yes. And I learned that early on in my very first year out of college, working in a small business queue selling computers to small businesses. And so that was such an important lesson and that has translated to entrepreneurship.
What has been a harder transition is I spent years selling face-to-face and building relationships with C-level executives. Which you think would be, if you can do that, you can sell to anyone. Selling online and learning how to communicate written and sell, you know, on a lead, a sales page and with, you know, email marketing and social media is a whole different ballgame.
And so have really had to take some of those skills and tweak them and learn that face-to-face selling is very different than written communication. And so your messaging matters even more when you are writing that out. Because that\'s all people are seeing. They\'re not seeing your body language. And they\'re not being able to build a relationship with you sometimes before they buy. So kind of both sides of the coin.
Dr Steve Day: Yeah, totally. And I\'ve worked with quite a few clients who\'ve made that shift from the world of corporate into the world of small business. Because a lot of what I help people do is to figure out how to build the systems, operational systems around them. So they can do whatever it is their superpower is.
So if you are the sales or you are the product designer or whatever it is. They\'re like, how does all that other stuff get done? And because coming from a corporate world, and I have this experience working in medicine, when I had just teams of people all around me. They did everything that I didn\'t do.
And suddenly when you\'re a small business owner, an entrepreneur, you are everything, and you have to figure out all the pieces of the puzzle. And so how do you find that, that transition from the corporate to the being one of many, to being one of one. Or maybe you had a small, maybe you have a small team around you. But you are now the person making, you know, all those decisions. And like, did you find, did you struggle getting the balance between sales and operations?
Like are you super sales sided and then the operations were left their own devices for a bit? Or how did you get that balance right?
Andee Hart: I would say I really enjoy the operations. I\'m fascinated by them. I think that\'s probably my technology background just a little bit, to some degree. The, it is a hard balance in learning and reminding yourself of what moves the needle, especially when you are a solopreneur. And so what I have found as one of the hardest things is understanding, and this is different for everyone, what is my 20%? My 20% that I, not only find enjoyment with, but that I am gifted with and that I can make the most impact with in my business.
And then the next thing is, and the mistake I made early on, is finding just kind of a generalist, that says they can do all of this other stuff that I wanna outsource. And that\'s not really the right thing either. Because you wanna find someone that they have a great 20%. And so I\'ll give you a perfect example.
I started a podcast, right? And so instead of just finding a VA that could handle doing some podcast work, I found someone that, that\'s all they did. They specialized in that. That was their 20%. And she\'s phenomenal at what she does.
And so I learned that lesson early on and got burnt a little bit. By someone that tried to do everything and did everything not so well. And so that\'s something that I\'ve had to really watch for myself as well as. What am I really good at? And so sometimes, and something you said recently on one of your podcast episodes is that you\'re really good at getting to that 75%. But then you need someone to kind of take over the details. Right. And I realize that is, I\'m similar in that aspect.
So I need someone, I\'m good at the big ideas, but I need someone to execute on the details. And so I\'ve had to learn that, and, you know, back in corporate, I had the team to do it and now I have to go hire that and find the right people for it. And so it\'s, been a transition for sure.
Dr Steve Day: And how have you approached sales in that respect? Do you, have you kept sales as Andee takes care of sales? Or have you managed to, or decided to actually bring in sales representatives as well for the business?
Andee Hart: So both. And you\'ll appreciate this too. I\'ve automated some of that to some degree, especially from the beginning stages of sales. When I am selling some of my, more low ticket offerings. And so I have automated as much of that as possible. And then I, something I have realized, and this is just natural from my past corporate experience. But I will convert at a lot higher rate when I get someone on a call with me and face-to-face. And I sell, you know, once they get to know me.
And so something I have incorporated into my sales process is once they get to a certain interest level or you know, they\'re interested in a certain course or program. Part of that process is getting on a call with me. And so at that level, that is me. That is all me. But the other sales is actually not on anyone else. It is just an automated, it\'s really an automated, you know, marketing funnel.
And then of course in my candle company, that is, is really something that I have outsourced quite a bit. Because I just don\'t have the time or capacity now that I\'m doing a lot of coaching. And so, I have definitely pushed all of that and outsourced all of the sales there.
Dr Steve Day: Okay, I know. Interesting to hear. I mean, my journey similar to you. I mean, I\'m, mine\'s a, high ticket coaching program. Is the term people often use. And, for me that means that at this stage, I don\'t have a team of coaches that are working under my banner. Or as you know, not using my IP or whatever. It\'s just me doing the coaching.
And so I believe that like people in that respect are buying from me. They\'re buying me and my experience and time. And so I\'ve tried to work with salespeople in the past to actually do the conversions. And they were, the percentages were just not, it didn\'t, it was made no financial sense for me to do it. Because they couldn\'t convert anything like the levels that I can.
Because when I\'m on that call and I\'m having that conversation, they\'re buying into the person that you are. And so, like, if, like for me, in my business, right now, it makes perfect sense for me to actually own that space. Yeah. But just, and the reason I wanna bring that in is because I think that I, because of my initial discomfort of selling, try to move that out. Try to say, look, I wonder if I could just not be a part of this.
Whether it\'s through like automation and whatever, like yeah, it works. As you say, for the low ticket stuff, when are you getting into the high and higher ticket. Unless you ask Russell Brunson or someone like super well known, you know, Alex Hormozi, you know. You\'re gonna have to probably speak to this person. Before they\'re gonna trust you enough to give you thounsands and thousands of dollars.
And so therefore, like stepping into that for me was just an owning it. Rather than trying to find ways to avoid it, was a huge, made a huge difference. Not only to my business in terms of sales, but also to me. Because once I accepted it and took it on board, I started enjoying it. Yeah. Whereas before, it was always a means to an end. Yeah.
But then when I realized, actually, no. This can be, like you said before, if you are coming from a place of service and you are selling for the right reasons. And you actually believe what you do is value and it does actually produce results for the people that buy into you. Then once you, believe that for yourself, I think then it can become enjoyable. And that\'s the journey that I found.
Andee Hart: So there\'s a couple of things that you just said there that are critical to part of the process. One is believing in what you are selling and the transformation that you provide. And it\'s interesting enough. Because I just recorded a podcast episode yesterday talking about.
Dr Steve Day: What\'s, your podcast called, Andee?
Andee Hart: \"She Sells Differently\" is the name of, is the name of my podcast and the title of this episode, it\'ll release in a few weeks. It\'s called, \"No One Cares About Your Product\". It\'s kind of one of those hot takes, you know?
But the point of the episode is that if you don\'t care about your product and you\'re not passionate about it, and no one else is going to either. And so you have to be confident. And you have to know that what the product or the service that you\'re providing, that it provides a transformation.
So not only from just an enthusiasm and a confidence perspective. But also for me from an, you know, an ethical perspective. I can\'t sell something that I am not a hundred percent confident is going to accomplish the goal that I have uncovered my client is trying to get at. And so that\'s another part of this process. You know, you were talking about getting on a call with someone and we\'re, talking about having client calls. And that if you\'re doing a high ticket program, this is inevitably something that you are probably going to need. To implement as a part of your business.
And I have found so many people are nervous about these. But when you get on these calls, if you do have the mindset first off, and you take out of your mind, I am trying to pitch them my product or my service, or my high ticket program. And you are instead, my whole goal in this call is to uncover the problem they\'re trying to solve, to get to know this person, and just to genuinely serve them. And that is your mindset.
What inevitably happens, and I\'m talking nine out of 10 times, that person by the end of the call will be asking you, tell me about your program. You\'re not pitching your program. They are trying to pull it out of you. And so that is the point that I get to in a sales call. That I am, my mindset is so invested in that person and learning about their business. And uncovering their goals, their desires, what they want for their business, what they see as their ideal transformation. So that I can even know if my product or my service or my program is going to serve them. Because I might disqualify them right up front.
And there have been several sales calls that I have said when I\'ve, it\'s gotten to the point where they have said, tell me about your program. I said, I will be happy to, but let me tell you, it is not the right fit for you. Let me tell you about someone else I met I was on a podcast with, and they are the right fit for you and this is why. And that\'s hard to do as an entrepreneur.
But if you really have the mindset that you\'re serving someone, then you\'re willing to say no. And you\'re willing to direct them into the right space that\'s gonna serve them in their business. And so that is always where I come from in a sales call, and inevitably they\'re asking me about the program. Before I can even get to the point where I\'m telling them about it.
Dr Steve Day: Yeah, I love that. And just hearing what you\'re saying then about pushing people away. That took a long time for me, I think with those people. To have the confidence that actually, that is the, not only the right thing for them, but it\'s the right thing for us as business owners. Yeah. And I interviewed a, great guy called Chet Morjaria on the podcast he wrote a book called, \"The Right Clients\", and it\'s all about this. That you need to only accept the right clients into your business. Because every wrong client you accept is a massive drain on energy and resources and time.
Andee Hart: Oh yeah.
Dr Steve Day: And it actually doesn\'t serve you or them, and this just ends up with bad energy or negative energy from both sides. And that doesn\'t help anybody. So what you just said then about actually having the confidence to say no. I think is one of the hardest lessons to learn, especially when money\'s tight. But doing that shows you have integrity and authenticity. And you\'re actually, you are coming from a place of, you know, genuine service, which I think is brilliant.
Andee Hart: Yeah. And you think about that from, and I learned this lesson in, in corporate. I had several amazing mentors in corporate that would teach that, taught me that. But do you think about that on the back end. If you know, full circle back to what I said at the beginning. If I sell them on this course and they buy into it and there\'s a big delta and a big gap in their expectations. And they have a bad experience, right, and they have a bad experience.
And whether or not I have to deal with that, or you know, they have to deal with it. It doesn\'t matter. That is just a poor taste in their mouth of what they were sold. They\'re gonna go share that with other people. And what is the number one marketing in your business? It\'s word of mouth. And so instead, and this actually, this is a real life example of someone that I told, you know, you\'re not ready for my program.
Not that you\'re not ready. But my program\'s not a right fit for your goals. And a year later she came back. And she ended up investing in my program. Because her goals had changed and she was ready. And so inevitably, two things will happen is that they will share their great experience with you because they\'re stunned, right?
This is a person of integrity. Someone you do want to work with. Or they\'ll come back around and want to work with you in some capacity. Just because of who you are and who your brand is. And so that is what I want to be about. That\'s why I knew my business \"She Sells Differently\". Because it\'s so different than what culture teaches you. What I was taught in corporate, that you overcome every objection. Not necessarily. Not every customer\'s for you.
Dr Steve Day: No. I just. You just reminded me of a sales conversation I had relative recently and towards the end of last year. And a client came on. And I had my initial call with them exactly like you described. They\'re finding out what their biggest challenges are. Trying to work out if I can help them. If what I do in the way I describe it, if I can do what I do easiest to give them the most value, if that is a good fit, then it\'s a good fit for both of us. Whereas if I\'ve gotta work hard or they\'ve gotta, they\'re not gonna get as much value, then it\'s not gonna work.
So that sort of mentality. And I went into this really like positively with this sort of attitude coming towards end of last year. And they went away and I said, look, I always book a follow up, call. Unless is an absolute no. Book a follow up call, just to sort of recap. And in this case, he came back with a two page reasons why I should accept him onto the program and why he, I should work with him. Like, because he was just so bought into that he wants to, he wanted yes a lot for me.
And I was like, actually, after seeing this version of your story and understanding this version of your challenges, I\'m like, a hundred percent, yes. Hell yes. You\'re in. But it, yeah, but it, he, convinced me. And that, like, that\'s just mind blowing as a somebody who came from a position of like, fighting for sales. And like, what do you mean no?
You know, I can, help you. You know, and just check like chasing like a, you know, like I noticed a completely incompetence person. Trying to like grab everything. To being the person that\'s actually pushing people away. Then that it\'s like, that\'s transformation. Like, yeah, you just reminded me of that. And I\'m so glad you did. Yeah. Because it was just a huge, huge, like, wow. Yeah.
Andee Hart: I love that. I love that story. I think that there\'s, to some degree, there\'s so much sales psychology in that too. Which I love studying sales psychology and bio-psychology. But most importantly, just coming back to that. Ultimately you were trying to serve. You were, your goal was to serve that person. And I think at the end of the day, most, and I don\'t want to, you know, lump every sales person in this category. But I, you know, been in sales for 20 years now, and it is a very, self-centered industry.
And so it is very counter-cultural to be a selfless salesperson. And every time I have encountered someone that was more customer focused and less about self. They inevitable, they go farther and farther in their career. And there might be times where they lose the battle. But they win the war every single time. And so I think that\'s just an important thing to remember. When you are on those individual sales calls, no matter what you\'re doing, always acting with integrity and with the customer\'s best interest in mind and seeking to serve them first.
Dr Steve Day: Yeah, a hundred percent. And, I wonder what your take is on this. Because I think I did, I\'ve done a lot of sales training over the years here and there. And I\'ve had a couple of really, really well, one really good coach. And a couple of not so good coming more from the corporate, typical way of selling.
Andee Hart: Yes.
Dr Steve Day: And, I think that what I\'ve taken from over the years is, when you\'re selling for yourself, when it\'s your business then and your name is on the door, so to speak. And especially if you are the one also involved in the service delivery. It\'s like, you\'re so integral to the whole process that like what we\'re describing here should be natural. It should be like, of course this is the way you\'re gonna sell. Because everything about this is gonna affect you personally, your brand, your business, them, and that whole cycle.
But I think that, because this is just my opinion, but like when you are working for somebody as a sales person, if you don\'t make those sales like you\'re not getting paid. And so that\'s such a, it can change, I think the way that you approach that sales. It must be, I imagine, and I\'m now thinking back to the people that have worked for me as salespeople over the years in the past. Like, like working for someone as a salesperson and having this level of integrity to be able to push back and say no, and serve, serve, serve.
Like do you have experience in helping to, or how to get other people to sell for you at this level. Rather than a level of, you know, self-service. Because commissions is how I basically get paid. Do see where I\'m coming from with this?
Andee Hart: Yes, it makes sense. Yeah. So I have, an example for you from when I was in corporate. And I was selling and I will, to answer your question, it starts with leadership and the culture that they set. And I have been a part of amazing leadership. That set this kind of culture and really, really poor leadership.
And so we\'re talking about you, you lost a hundred thousand dollars deal. You need to go or find another a hundred thousand dollars deal to replace it, you know, and it\'s your Friday sales calls or you know, Pipeline calls are full of yelling and you know that, that kind of culture. And so this example that I\'m gonna give you was. I was in that culture, and so my engineer and I were working on several hundred thousand dollars solution for a company. And we had, our company had just acquired a, hire a storage company, a, you know, a higher level technology company that we were really pushing, right?
But in this case, it was not the right fit for this customer. It was not the right fit, and so my manager wanted us to upsell him by about $150,000 to this new product, but they didn\'t need it. Would that have helped my quota a hundred percent, but it wasn\'t the right solution and it wasn\'t the right fit. It wasn\'t the right thing to do.
And so I remember, and this is, I, am a very, you know, rule follower by the book respectful person, but it is the one time in my career that I had a manager call me and just yelling and I stood my ground of why I was proposing the solution. And I, the one time I have ever said to a manager. I didn\'t just hang up on him, but I said, I am going to hang up now because if I don\'t, you and I are both gonna lose our cool and things are not gonna end well. We ended up getting, beating our competition and getting the PO and winning the deal, and he ended up apologizing for the way he acted.
But I will never forget that example because we did the right thing by the customer. It was the right solution and it would\'ve been easy to sell something that was more, you know, expensive to fulfill that quota, right? But it starts with leadership and it starts with setting the right culture.
And if your leadership is, or your, you as the business owner are putting that kind of pressure, then. Your salespeople are going to cut corners. They\'re going to sell the wrong solution. They\'re going to, and ev they\'re, going to, you know, sell, upsell the customer to something that they don\'t need. But if you set a culture where you are serving before you\'re selling, then that, that\'s an, easy win, for your customers and for your business.
Dr Steve Day: Yeah, totally. Well than you for stumbling your ground.
Andee Hart: Ooh, that was a Yeah. We\'ll never forget that one. Leadership lessons, what not to do.
Dr Steve Day: Yeah, I think, like from. Perspective of reward as well. If you have a reward system which is purely based on front end sales, then that in itself could be a, reason for people to sell, potentially for the wrong reasons. Whereas if you reward sales on the backend as in like longevity or lifetime value of a client, or when a client hits a certain milestone or period, then you are. You are getting the investment from the salesperson to sell to someone who\'s gonna stick around and get good value from your product.
So, that\'s that we try, we attempted, we tried that as well. But then unfortunately the relationship we, before we could really see the, if that worked as an approach. I stopped working with the person. But anyway.
Andee Hart: And there\'s lots of other metrics that you could use for that, depending on what. What you\'re tracking and what KPIs you\'re tracking within your company. I mean, you could do NPS, you could do, you know, customer lifetime value or lots of different things, but you could also, you know, just look at this, you know, just culture, rewards, things like that. And so I think if you\'re really in tune with your, your people and.
Good leaders. There doesn\'t even necessarily have to be, a set, you know, monetary, reward system. It should be recognition, all the time. You know, and it should be talked about all the time. Like that. To me, that is the first, that is the first step because not everyone, believe it or not, even some of your top salespeople are not coin operated. And some people are like, what are in sales? I wasn\'t coin operated.
So I like managers at first worked with me. Like, did you know they didn\'t understand that. And I remember a higher up director sent me a gift card in the mail for closing a big deal. What meant more to me was the handwritten letter that he wrote. So it\'s knowing your people and really, you know, setting that kind of culture up front.
Dr Steve Day: If you read the book by the founders of Basecamp, I think it\'s called something like, \"It Doesn\'t Have to Be Like That at Work\", or something along them lines.
Andee Hart: I haven\'t read that. I\'ll have to look it up.
Dr Steve Day: Interesting. It\'s basically a book for their policies and one of their policies was about rewards in including sales rewards. And I may don\'t quote me on this because it\'s a long time since I read it, but what I remember from it is they actually had no sales rewards or commission-based, bonuses.
It was all bonuses were based on the increase in profit of the company that year, at the end of the year. And it was shared equally. Pro rat are against levels of wages, whatever, but shed equally across all the staff because their recognition was that the entire business, entire team, everything about that, from sales to delivery to whatever that is what generates the increase in profit and therefore percentage of that increase in profit, which is given back to the staff as a reward.
And I thought that was, they had some really, they\'ve got some really nice policies in there. Yeah. That\'s why it\'s always stuck with me about not rewarding individuals because there is no one individual, like the person that designs the product and the, material that goes behind the sale that gets that person the right person in front of the salesperson. I mean, their work is equally, if not more valuable in some respects, and the person closing the deal, you know? So that\'s the way they looked at it. It\'s like there\'s not one individual who\'s responsible for any sale.
Andee Hart: Yeah. Quite like that, which is very true. Yeah.
Dr Steve Day: Cool. Before we wrap up, one thing that\'s come up, and I\'ve not found a way just to feed this back in naturally, so I\'m just gonna check it in there, is that, it came up when we were talking before about, feeling that your product is or is not good enough.
And I think that one of the challenges that I face over the years is that I have a, like a perception in my mind about what I want my product to be and like how good I want it to be. And it may be because you. I\'ve experienced amazing products in the past, and I wanna sort of do something equal to them.
But knowing that they have million multimillion pound budgets to deliver something like that, doesn\'t, take away the fact that I still wanna do the same. So I, can feel, and I know that many of my clients are the same as this, when I speak to them about their, feelings about sales, about prices, about when to launch, et cetera, et cetera. And so the question is that. If your product is at a certain level and you don\'t feel like, for example, well just, you don\'t feel that it\'s like at the pinnacle that you believe it should be.
So if I wanted to charge regardless of what it\'s, if I want charge $10,000 for my finished product, I think it\'s gonna be amazing. But maybe, I think it\'s like at 60%. Like, so the challenge is like, do I just keep on working at it in the background to get it to that top level before you start selling? Or how do I approach the sales where I don\'t feel I can sell it for what I think it\'s gonna be worth? It\'s not there yet. But then do I reduce the promise on what I\'m offering or do I reduce the price or a bit of both?
I\'m sure you\'ve experienced this Yes. This, di, this dilemma that you have in businesses, you\'re growing and you\'re developing and et cetera. And I\'d love to get your, insights and thoughts on this.
Andee Hart: Yeah. So first I\'ll say, I am a recovering perfectionist. So, I hear this kind of question all of the time. I will put a caveat first. It depends on what industry you\'re in and what product that you have. Whether you\'re putting a, you know, a 60% perfect product out there, right?
But if it is a viable product and it is, that extra bit is because of your perfectionism. I always recommend to put it out there because there is so much value in customer feedback and some of the best improvements I have made on my own products. And you might think, Andee, they\'re candles. How much improvement can you make?
Well, product packaging is one of the best sellers. That you have for your products, and I have had some of the best feedback from retailers that didn\'t buy my products about my product packaging that I was able to then go take and implement and improve. And because of that constructive feedback when it wasn\'t perfect yet.
Now, I can\'t help but think how many more retailers are carrying my product because I was willing to put it out there before it was exactly perfect and exactly what I wanted it to be, but I was willing to put it out there and get the feedback and to.
Not take it personally to not, you know, let, that deter me from my mission of getting my candles on retailer shelves. And so I say that because you have to be willing to take it from that perspective and get feedback and use it to implement it and make your product, take your product from that 60 to a hundred percent. So I absolutely would put it out there. But do it in a way that you can effectively get feedback and use that in a valuable way.
Dr Steve Day: Yeah. Cool. What I\'ve, done in the, in, in the past, just reflecting as you\'re talking now, is, put things out as with a beta label on them. I\'m just saying, or like a, you know, getting people in at the founder\'s level or at the point where like you are being open saying this isn\'t finished, so you are gonna get a, maybe a little bit of a better price or a higher level of service that people can expect in the future.
And that has actually worked. Very, very well. Yes, but I\'ve not done that for, a long time, and maybe that\'s what I need to do rather than holding back for the next big release, is actually to start getting people in, but being open and honest about where it\'s at in the process of development.
Andee Hart: That\'s actually a great point. So, flipping the switch, because I sell, I personally sell both products and services. Yeah. So I gave a product example, but talking about a course, when I first launched my wholesale course, I did exactly that. I sold it as a Founder\'s round.
And part of the value that the people that invested in the Founders Round received, they, got a pretty significant discount, but they were, they got a guided four week implementation. So it was four weeks of coaching with me. But part of that, in return, they gave me feedback at every step of the way that I took and went back and.
Updated my course with the feedback that those founder students gave and so they knew exactly when they signed up that they were signing up for a founder\'s round. And I even promised them that they would get the updates that I made so that, you know, they wouldn\'t feel like they were missing out on, you know, the final. Piece or the final version. And that worked out really, really well.
So I highly encourage that if you\'re doing a program, a coaching program, or a course launch a founder\'s round and be very transparent about it and part of them getting a discount or whatever you\'re providing coaching is that they give you feedback that you can then take and implement.
Dr Steve Day: Yeah, go. Going back. Whatever. It\'s now nine, 10 years. That is exactly what I did. That\'s how I started this business, this co the coaching business that I do now. But I guess I\'ve been hesitant to do it because I\'ve been around for, 10 years. It\'s like going back and saying, oh, here\'s a new beta coming out. It\'s a big launch for something that\'s not quite finished yet.
That\'s, actually almost like, I guess it\'s a pride thing or like, I dunno what the word is. Like worrying that\'s gonna actually have a negative impact in some way. I take, I was thinking about this the other day. This is random, a random side, but I was on the ski slopes on Friday last week, and I was thinking to myself about. I couldn\'t get, my carving turns done, whatever.
So I went in for my lunch break and I got on YouTube and I watched some videos on, not on YouTube, on my, a coaching app on about how to improve. And it talks about doing these drills. And these drills are basically going back to basics, looking like a beginner on the slopes falling over a lot. Because that\'s how you learn your edge of your limits. So then when you start going faster again, you can do it.
And it reminded me about like, look, I\'ve got to level of skiing now. Like with the business that I\'m way, way ahead of most people, but I now need to make myself look stupid in order to break through. And that just, listening to you speaking now, I mean, thinking about that analogy then it\'s exactly the same. It\'s like you\'ve got to be prepared to make yourself look stupid now and again, not stupid, but take the risk of actually it not being perfect. You go back to wearing the hat of the beginner\'s mind, like in Zen, speak.
Going back to the beginner\'s mind and being open to accept that actually, you know, there is a hell of a lot more to learn. Opening of doors to invite that feedback and criticism or constructive or otherwise. So yeah,
Andee Hart: I think clients appreciate that vulnerability too. And I venture to guess, you know, I\'m, I have been an entrepreneur now for two years and I know you have been doing it a lot longer. You, so you probably have a lot. More of a, you know, that core group of people that have been following you for a long time, that would jump at the chance to invest in like a beta program or founders program.
And sometimes if I am launching something new, even if it\'s something small, I will email that group. Say, who wants to beta test this? And so that might be a great way for, you know what, whatever you\'re launching have that group that has been steady and has invested in like every program that you\'ve done, email them.
Because they\'re probably the ones that are gonna provide the best feedback, the most honest feedback for you. And, you know, they\'re also. Probably not gonna judge you because they\'re already super fans, so Yes. Yeah.
Dr Steve Day: Very, very good point. Something I will definitely take away. Yeah. Because I don\'t think I\'ve, yeah, I don\'t sell often enough. I think people probably would like me to try to sell to them more often they do because it happens so rarely.
Andee Hart: None of us do. None of us do. So, yeah.
Dr Steve Day: Andee. Before I close, before we finish up, I should say let people know how they can find out more about you, what you do, and if they want to learn more about your services.
Andee Hart: Yes. Thank you for asking. So I have a podcast as well. It\'s called \"She Sells Differently\", and you can find me on my website is actually andeehart.com spelled a little different A-N-D-E-E hart.com and, yeah, so I hope to hear from you soon.
Dr Steve Day: We\'ll put your links in the show notes. As always. Before we go, I have one final question for you, which I ask everybody. This title of this podcast is Systemize Your Success, but what does success mean to you?
Andee Hart: Success for me personally, and I, when I became a. An entrepreneur. I kinda had a countdown when I was gonna leave, corporate. And it was, I called it tattoo time. That was when I was gonna leave corporate and get my first and only tattoo, but it\'s \"Soli Deo Gloria\", and that means glory to God alone. And so that success to me means that whatever I am doing, that I am going to glorify the Lord and, honor him with my gifts. So if I am doing that, then I am being successful.
Dr Steve Day: Wonderful. Great answer. And I love your tattoo by the way. I saw that on Instagram. Yes. Cool. Andee, thank you so much for today. As I thought would happen at the beginning of this episode, I have taken away lots of massively useful things, some reminders of stuff that I should have already known or should be thinking about and lots of new stuff as well. So, yeah, I\'m really grateful for your open openness and your. Service and just being, here to give value. So thank you so much for your time today.
Andee Hart: Thanks for having me. I really enjoyed it.
VALUABLE RESOURCES (For Ethical Sales Strategies)
- Andee Hart’s List of Sales Tools for Entrepreneurs: https://andeehart.com/salestools
LINKS TO CONNECT WITH THE GUEST
- Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/andeehart/
- LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/andeehart/
- Hart Design Co Instagram Page: https://www.instagram.com/hartdesignco/
ABOUT THE GUEST
Andee Hart is an energetic entrepreneur and sales strategist. She is also the host of She Sells Differently podcast. After turning her candle-making side hustle, Hart Design Co., into a thriving wholesale and retail business, she left her corporate sales career to pursue entrepreneurship full-time. Now, Andee empowers entrepreneurs to overcome sales anxiety and grow their businesses with integrity, grace, and confidence
LINKS TO CONNECT WITH THE HOST
- Podcast: https://www.systemizeyoursuccess.com
- Website: https://systemsandoutsourcing.com/
- Facebook Group: https://facebook.com/groups/systemsandoutsourcing/
- LinkedIn: https://linkedin.com/company/systemsandoutsourcing/
- Instagram: https://instagram.com/systems_and_outsourcing/
- YouTube: https://youtube.com/@drsteveday42
- TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@drsteveday42
ABOUT THE HOST
Steve moved to Sweden in 2015 and transformed how he ran his businesses—switching to a fully remote model. A former NHS doctor, with a background in computing and property investing, he now helps overwhelmed business owners systemise and outsource effectively. Additionally, through his courses and coaching, Steve teaches how to automate operations and work with affordable virtual assistants, freeing up time and increasing profits. He runs his UK-based businesses remotely with support from a team of UK and Filipino VAs. He is also passionate about helping others build scalable, stress-free companies using smart systems and virtual support.