What Most Entrepreneurs Get Wrong About Burnout—And How to Break Free with Scott Anderson, Founder of Doubledare | Ep 228

Dr Steve Day [00:00:00]:

Worry, stress, and ultimately burnout is unfortunately pretty common with us entrepreneurs. And so today, when Scott Anderson applied to be on the show, I was super keen on speak with him because he\'s a mental therapist, but also a serial entrepreneur who\'s also been through burnout himself and come out the other side. He now is a business coach at Doubledare Consulting, where he helps people to get through burnout, to find techniques and ways to break those vicious cycles of stress and overwork and just feeling like nothing is ever enough and feeling scared and worried that there\'s no other way to do things, feeling trapped in your business or in the work cycle you\'ve got stuck into, and to have techniques and ways to actually come through that with more clarity, more focus, and more freedom to live a more more filling life. And in today\'s conversation, Scott opened up to so many incredible techniques, stories, and case studies, and examples of how we can get through burnout as entrepreneurs, how we can avoid burnout as entrepreneurs, and how ultimately we can create a more fulfilling, holistic lifestyle that supports both our business and our self worth and our status, but also our family, our interests, and our hobbies as well. I genuinely enjoyed this episode. I was excited about speaking to Scott when he applied for the show. I wasn\'t let down. I really hope you enjoy watching this or listening to this as much as I did recording it.

Enjoy. Hi, Scott. Absolute pleasure to have you on the show today.

Scott Anderson [00:01:29]:

Good morning. Wonderful to be here. We really appreciate the opportunity to talk about our shared interest in burnout.

Yeah. Totally. And, you know, I I love when I get applications like yours to come on the show, when I just immediately have, like, resonate with your story, your vision, what you\'re trying to do, like, so many things about what you talk about on your website and to, you know, the application process going through and learning a bit about you, just really resonated with me. And the the fact that you have been through burnout, I can relate to that. I\'ve now helped people understand that. The fact you\'ve got, a a background also in in in health care and mental health as well, and I\'m interested in that, having worked as a doctor in the past. So, yeah, I think we have a lot to talk about. So I\'m excited to have you on the show.

So thank you for coming on.

Thank you. My pleasure.

Cool. So I\'d love to kick off with just really sharing with with the listeners what I\'ve learned about you. I\'m sure you\'re gonna learn a bit bit more besides as you go through this. But, like, why do you do what you do? So maybe just explain very briefly, like, what is the actual crux of what you do right now? And then what drove you to spend your your life as you if if you spend it now actually focusing on this part of of all the things you could do in business and work?

Oh, such a great question. Thank you. Well, what I do is to help high performing people, typically entrepreneurs and business owners, recover from the exhaustion and really the defeat of of burnout of of clinical burnout. We could perhaps talk a bit about more about what that actually is because a lot of people sometimes imagine that it means one thing or another. But the clinical definition is really kind of interesting in itself. So that\'s that\'s what we do. We\'ve worked with thousands of, of entrepreneurs and other business leaders, around the around the world, actually, and we help them quickly and permanently recover from burnout. And more importantly, and I think probably more germane to what you and I are doing today, to help them live a life, beyond burnout.

Because so many people assume that if I if I stop burning the candle at both ends and stop burning myself out, that my life will be kind of a, blah, mediocre experience. I won\'t die at my desk or stroke out, but my experience is going to be kind of a blah experience. And the opposite, to my great delight, the opposite is true. The reason, the reason that I do it is that I I damn near died, of my own burnout. Died at least my soul almost died, and my health was deeply compromised. And, you know, to be honest, I never thought I\'d be able to recover from my own burnout. I was waking up every morning, completely exhausted and had the experience I don\'t know if you\'ve seen this movie, perhaps not an American movie called Groundhog\'s Day.

Oh, yeah.

It\'s a movie with with Bill Murray where he wakes up every morning again and again and again. It\'s 06:30AM, and he has to face the same day over and over. And my life was becoming the not very funny version of that movie. And I really was afraid, as a lot of my clients are, that one day, I won\'t be able to answer the bell. I won\'t be able to get out of bed, one morning. And, my fear was if I can\'t get out of bed one morning, then the wheels of my life are gonna completely fall off. And that was really the the sort of you know, Thoreau says that men live lives of quiet desperation. That was the quiet desperation I was going through.

But I didn\'t know of, even despite my graduate school training and my experience as a therapist, I hadn\'t ever really seen anything in the literature that addressed burnout firsthand. So I sort of went on this desperate scavenger hunt looking for solutions.

Yeah. I totally relate to what you\'re talking about. And I think I think, like, there\'s so much pressure on business owners in general, male and female, but it\'s this this pressure to just keep performing. And like you say, you get into this conditioning, don\'t you, that that your life is the status quo. Like, what we are doing now, that\'s it. Like, that is what we\'ve created for ourselves and and trying to see an alternative way of living where we still actually feel that we have the same self worth and that we still actually have a place in society and in our in our community or in our peer group or whatever. I think that can be so fearful. Like, it\'s that complete the unknown of, okay.

Well, if I if I stop, if I pull back, like, where do I go? Like, what happens to me? And I think that that Exactly. That for me was a huge driver that kept me pushing beyond when I should have stopped, beyond when I should have said, hold on. There\'s there\'s gotta be a better better better way.

Yes. It\'s so true. I I find that with myself and with our clients, and I\'m sure you\'ve had this experience, but I just couldn\'t imagine another way of living Even though what, my so called way of living was actually killing me, I couldn\'t imagine another way. The blinders were so, you know, five feet thick. I just couldn\'t even imagine. And it seemed like this zero sum game of a lot of my clients have told me, that the the choice feels like succeed at work or succeed at home. Pick one. And, you know, I couldn\'t figure a way out.

I was just completely stumped.

Yeah. I, again, totally relate. And, I feel that I when I\'ve I\'ve talked about this before in my podcast that when my first son was born, I was very in in that zone of I have to succeed at work to support my family, ironically, to then to have the freedom to enjoy with them. But that freedom was never gonna happen because it was only going I was only going to become busier, and I was neglecting my family in order to try and spend time with my family. Just it was a mess. So how do you help people if I roll back to then if you\'ve met me at that point in my life when I was just, yeah, for a better word, neglecting my family, my responsibilities, trying to make it work, feeling the the the the huge responsibility of having to pay wages, having to, you know, put money into the household fund to actually pay the bills and stuff. And so feeling I I can\'t step away from this, but I\'m also missing out on everything that I started this business to to have because it\'s just this horrible catch 22. What do you do? What how do you approach that situation with people when you speak to them?

Such a great question, and and I I totally relate. Yes. Having to in my case and a lot of our clients\' cases, it isn\'t just, you know, keeping my family afloat, but other families, other employees\' families afloat. So the responsibility is is daunting. And, you know, I guess the the way my own journey sort of unfolded was I was very, very fortunate to stumble into a few things that helped me just a little bit. And, you know, that\'s really we start with our clients at a first of all, we know that they\'re very busy. They\'re very, cynical, and, you know, and their their faith is sort of shaken. Mine was completely shaken.

I had invested literally everything I had in this idea of how my life should be, and and I was I was succeeding at it. That was the frustrating part. I was supposedly succeeding, and yet it wasn\'t working. So to begin with, there are basically three three phases that that we see and that the the literature bears out, in terms of what it takes to recover from burnout. And the first part of it is to address sort of the canary in the coal mine, and that is the exhaustion. And we you know, one of the kind of tough conversations I have with most of my clients is that is the realization that you are causing your own burnout. There are certainly people who are in situations that are toxic or, misogynistic or, racist or otherwise dysfunctional. And if that\'s the case, then you should run away screaming.

But my in my experience and the people that I work with, almost always, they\'re causing their own burnout. And by that, I mean and that\'s sort of bad news, but the good news is is that if I had to wait for my clients to change or my employees to change or my family to change or the world to change, it could be a very, very long wait. When it turns out that it\'s me, then I\'ve got a chance. And that was that\'s sort of the original conversation that I have with people. And at first, it feels like so much of burnout is sort of a a victim mindset, and my clients hate to hear that. And as a, you know, as an independent go getter person, I I really hated hearing that, but it\'s really, really true. And so many of the things that we do that have really worked, so many of the patterns and habits we\'ve developed really work. I\'m sure in your case, it built a it built a medical practice.

It built a family. It built the ability to pay our employees and the ability to pay ourselves, and it appears to be a successful model. I why should I stop doing what I\'m doing? It\'s working. The problem with, I I noticed that in our twenties, a lot of us overcompensate for lack of experience and tap into ambition by working being willing to work very, very hard, having no boundaries, saying yes to everything, and we distinguish ourselves when we\'re early in our careers. But that mindset, as successful as it is in the beginning, doesn\'t scale. By the time we\'re typically, mid third mid to late thirties or early forties, especially if we are successful, quote, unquote, particularly if we\'re running our own enterprise, we begin to see that this won\'t scale. It\'s not just most of my my one of my clients told me the other day, it feels as though the two knobs I can adjust are working harder and worrying more. Those are the two things that I can do.

And, sadly, you we all reach a point, especially because we\'re successful, where that doesn\'t work anymore. So to begin with is just to realize, you know, it isn\'t that you\'re defective. It\'s that it\'s time to shift into a different way of of being. And, to begin with, the first thing we work on is energy, because that is, as I say, the first symptom that usually presents is just this bone tired exhaustion that does not, improve, even if you take a vacation or a long weekend. I\'ve had clients take sabbaticals. I had one in Poland take a sabbatical of six months, and she discovered at the end of that that she was just as exhausted as she was at the beginning. So the things that we that come naturally or intuitively for us to do to recover, especially recover our energy, don\'t work. There\'s a lot of counterintuitiveness to all of this, and most of us aren\'t prepared to think counterintuitively until we\'re really desperate.

So one of the first things that we talk about is energy and how we recover from it. And, you know, this is really a response to stress. The World Health Organization says that burnout is, literally defined as unsustained and unrelieved extreme stress, and the body simply can\'t stay in a state of fight or flight twenty four seven without and you\'re the doctor. I\'ll defer to you, but, you know, without literally burning out our adrenal systems, our cortisol, systems, and so forth. And we reach a place where we are literally exhausted of all of the brain chemistry and body chemistry that we need. And the reason mainly is because we postpone recovery from stress. We think that, well, tonight, I\'ll get a good night\'s sleep, or this weekend, I\'ll relax, or I\'ll take the vacation, or even the sabbatical. And it sounds right.

In The United States, that\'s how we live. You work for fifty weeks or you work for fifty weeks, and then you recover for two weeks a year. That should work. Right? But it doesn\'t. So what does work, however, as counterintuitive as it is, is to recover in the moment as we\'re experiencing stress. And this is very counterintuitive for many of us, certainly for me, because I don\'t wanna admit that I\'m stressed. That\'s a fearful thing to do. If I\'m stressed, that might mean I\'ll stay stuck in a stressed condition, or I might panic, or I might fail.

And so, I think this is especially true in Western culture, certainly American culture. We don\'t wanna face the idea that I\'m stressed even to acknowledge it. But that\'s really the beginning of energy recovery. And to in the moment where we\'re feeling stressed, to notice that we\'re stressed, and we have a a variety we have a system, basically, of how to do this. Our clients won\'t meditate, we\'ve discovered. It\'s the gold standard. We all know that, but they don\'t have time and they won\'t do it. And so instead, we have some very quick interventions that allow you to acknowledge stress and release it on the spot, and that works.

What doesn\'t work is postponing it indefinitely and then thinking one day, I\'ll I\'ll really re release all that stress.

Yeah. I I think some some things it\'s out there just, like, the the the language that you\'re using, like, people, again, might not like to hear it, but it\'s very similar to addiction. Well, it is actually addictions. Addiction. It is addiction. Exactly. The dopamine we kick we get from the overwork, from that status of feeling like the person I am is the person that works harder than anyone else I know. That\'s who I am.

That\'s the status I\'ve created for myself, and that becomes addictive. And then so this loss of that that feeling as as even though we know it\'s bad for us, like with many addictions, that that by the nature of what they are, there\'s often it\'s it\'s bad to do it, but we can\'t let go of it. Yes. And, like, when you think you\'ve described that so so eloquently and beautifully, and I think, like, just just a little story story from my side, like two things, like, the first thing that ever worked for me was was, realizing that I\'d moved to Sweden to create a better life for myself. I I I acknowledge this. I\'d actually gotten finally got to the point where I accepted, yeah, I there\'s there\'s a problem here. I\'ve gotta do something about it. So I\'ve taken the first tiny step.

Well, it\'s probably a big step, but taking this first step. Very good. Yeah. And I and I and then two years later, I was in Sweden still still living the same life. Different business, but same life. And and it took me to realize that actually I moved to Sweden so I could do things like go skiing, and I love skiing. And and I hadn\'t been skiing in, like, the time I\'ve been here. And so I was like, no.

My wife even sort of beat me into this. Like, you\'ve got to change. So so for me, I actually to the recovery in the moment, I\'m just, like, thinking about like, I didn\'t think about the process. Like, you\'ve you\'ve obviously got this entire process. Me, I was just figured it out as well. I would\'ve winged it, you know. And, and that moment for me was actually on a Friday, I\'m gonna take the day off on a Friday, and I\'m gonna go and do something I love. And and I don\'t care if that postpones my work because this is more important.

And and it was a huge challenge to do, and I had to roll. I had a few weeks to make that time in my diary to make it happen. But then once I started it, it was just like an elixir. It was like, suddenly, I\'d reclaimed, like, every reason I\'d started my business in the first place. And that for me was the first building block of breaking that that vicious, horrible habit cycle of just work, work, work, work. I wouldn\'t say it was all plain sailing, but, yeah, for me, that was that that moment you just described. So, anyway, just want to share that.

Yeah. I I that\'s a great example, of, you know, really and kind of in a nutshell of what what what recovery from burnout it requires, but it\'s very counterintuitive to go skiing. If our whole identity and our whole, really our, our careers and our resources and how we pay the bills is based on not skiing, Skiing is as counterintuitive as it gets. And you\'re so right on with the, addiction, description because it is a literal, you know, description. And and much like this is an extreme example. But if you think about heroin addiction, what happens ultimately is that our bodies reach a point of habituation where there you can take more and more, heroin but receive no effect. All it does is from is sort of prevent you from being sick. And, you know, it\'s like that with our brain chemistry.

Sometimes we think that we\'re, you know, we really do have these chemistry sets, and we learn how to use them at a very young age. And we have lots of different chemicals, including the ones you mentioned, cortisol, dopamine, norepinephrine, all these different chemicals, adrenaline in particular. And, and without being aware of it, we realized by really by chance, and unconsciously, but that we can change our state, and, we associate being stressed with being successful ultimately. Because it\'s certainly true that, if you think about Michael Jordan, the basketball player, he would talk about being in the zone. And in and in double overtime, you want him to have the ball because he was in this state, of mind, body, and spirit, but where the basketball hoop looked huge to him and everything became, slowed down and became easy. But Michael Jordan wasn\'t in that state, twenty four seven. When the game was over, he stopped being in that state. He knew how to get into state, but he wasn\'t in state all the time.

This is the stuck place that I got to in my own burnout was the the kind of almost superstition and certainly an addiction that I have to stay in this state 247 or the wheels will fall off, and I will I will suffer. You know, it\'s very common. I had this. A lot of my clients had this. If I go skiing or do anything as seemingly benign as that, we\'re gonna very shortly be living under a bridge, my family and I, with nothing to eat. And it\'s it\'s crazy, but it\'s it\'s very, very common. I hear this kind of a story from most of the people we work with.

Yeah. A 100%. Cool. Okay. So what what\'s next in your in in the recipe?

The the next piece is really very much like going skiing. I mean, to begin with, we have to be able to, we have to be able to learn how to relax and really more than that to just very briefly and gently be with the stress that we\'re feeling. You know, it\'s unfortunately, what most of us do, you\'ve heard the probably the metaphor of don\'t think about pink elephants, don\'t think about pink elephants. And, unfortunately, that tattoos pink elephants on our brains. And that\'s very much what we do, is is that we focus on, you know, we we say to ourselves, don\'t think about being overwhelmed. Don\'t think about being exhausted, and it and it doubles the the complication. So to begin with, we just we learn some techniques to face this, and that\'s, the first third of our program. The next piece is very much about going skiing, but it\'s helping people understand what do you love.

Because most of us have have pushed the things that we love across the table. And in this case, it\'s very much like a heroin addict. I mean, the the where we would take everything we have to continue to take heroin. And, so we push across the table our health, relationships with our spouses or significant others, with our families, with our own children. And we we often push this. And it isn\'t conscious, but there is this it\'s a perpetual process. So to begin with, we we ask our clients to go through a a process that we call guiding principle system or GPS to identify what do you love. And in the beginning, that\'s very hard, because we\'ve pushed many of us that that whole idea away because it feels as though that would jeopardize my ability to show up every day.

If I started to go skiing, bad things might happen. So we\'ve already sort of helped people get to the point where they can begin to tolerate and ultimately neutralize these disturbing thoughts and emotions so that they can bear to be with stress. So the next stage in this guiding principle system is to just begin to inventory what are the things I love or have loved to do and, to to create basically a series of principles that really say, for life to be life to me, for me to love it, not just tolerate it, what do I have to have in my life? Skiing is a perfect example. I mean, it sort of encompasses, you know, so many things at once, that are emblematic of things that we love. But for each person, it\'s a little bit different. It\'s like, kind of a values exercise, but it\'s not about moral values or ethical values. It\'s really about what makes life life to you. And I found that with a number of our clients, this is difficult, and it\'s also sometimes painful because we\'re sort of face to face with grief about the sacrifices that we that we made and are now beginning to wonder whether they were worth it.

Anyway, most of us get bullied by these disturbing thoughts and emotions that I\'m going to go broke if I don\'t if I ever go skiing, for example, and if I don\'t work twenty four seven. So, what we we create this GPS system, guiding principle system so that people can have another, true north in their lives, another way to think about making decisions. And at first, this be this is kind of, clunky and, requires some thought and some practice. But over time, it becomes possible then to make decisions based on what we love. And then we discover, you know, really, I don\'t have to work sixty hours a week to accomplish what I wanna accomplish. You know, most of the especially our clients who are in business, we take them through a genius zone process that really identifies what are the two or three things that\'ll have the biggest impact on your business versus the things that other people could do better, faster, and cheaper. And, when I I ask my clients to go through a time audit and to identify in a in a sixty hour, let\'s say, work week, how many hours a week do you spend in your genius zone doing the things that only you can do and that will move the needle farthest and fastest for you, for your employees, and for your clients? And most of our most of our clients spend zero hours a week, in that space. We spend most of our time, frantically doing things that many of which other people could do better, faster, cheaper.

But, again, we we what we discover most of my clients discover is that if they can just carve out five hours a week to do the things that most business owners need to do, typically involving envisioning for the company, coaching employees, meeting with the most important clients, let\'s say, on a as needed basis, that then they can have double or triple or 10 times the impact, but in a very short amount of time. And then, and usually, that\'s where we start. That begins the shift, and then they realize, oh god. I don\'t have to work sixty hours, maybe not even forty. I\'m leaving time for skiing now.

Yep. Totally. No. I I love this because it I mean, it\'s we we I approach things from a slightly different angle with, with how we do with how we do this. But, ultimately, like, what you just described is is so similar to to where I try to get, like, the people I coach with too is that just realization that, we call our superpowers. It\'s like Yes. You could just focus on your superpowers right now for the next, you know, ten hours. Like, surely something good would happen.

And, like, we know that the distraction. And they\'re like, oh my god. If I could just have ten hours. Yeah. You know? And and and that\'s the journey. So once you can plant that seed, it\'s like, yeah. Okay. There is a there is possibly another way out of this.

And then so what one thing again that, like, comes to me when we\'re talking through all this, you mentioned about, techniques and, the the meditation, for example, doesn\'t work for for many people. And I and I totally agree with that. It was many, many years after first hearing about using meditation to help with this. I even made any real breakaway through it. I actually started med meditation. Still do it pretty regularly now at night. So the last thing to do when I get into bed is just put a meditation on for for for twelve minutes. That\'s all it is.

And and and that does that helps sort of, like, clean out my brain, and let me sleep, because I\'m a I\'ve got ADHD, so my brain\'s all over the place all the time. And so often sleeping is is a challenge. And that that just doing that simple technique needs to be audiobooks, but I get too hung up on the story. And then for this, you know, a reset. But how do you if that doesn\'t work, what does work in, like, the stress matter? If you\'re so listen to this right now, they\'re they\'re in that stress state. They\'re just, like, they\'re needing something. Like, is there a specific way you help people?

There are. Yeah. There there\'s one in particular. And in fact, I can put a give you a link for show notes, but there\'s a technique, that we use called the r and r technique, and it was I I first learned about it. You may be familiar with Michael Singer who wrote, The Untethered Soul and, The Schreiner Experiment. Really brilliant, brilliant man. In The Untethered Soul, I read a paragraph in his book about, about a a relaxing and releasing, process. It was just two sentences.

But it was the first thing that I cloned on to in my own recovery. I used to do a lot of meditation and silent retreats and anything I can\'t get my hand on to try to reach this state. But I found that by the time I was burned out, I just didn\'t have the attention span for it. My nervous system was too fried. Anyway, the technique is simply this. I\'ve as my wife says, I\'ve milked a five second technique into a ten minute video. But, anyway, it\'s very, very simple. The the main thing and the the counterintuitive but the incredibly powerful thing is just for us to notice that we\'re feeling stressed.

And, again, that\'s kind of a taboo for people who are are in this box, in this vicious cycle. And but but what we ask people to do when we ask them to notice that they\'re stressed is not to think about it because that is don\'t think about pink elephants, kind of a vicious cycle. Instead, what we ask them to do is if they feel if we note we ask them if they feel upset or nervous or stressed to find it in their bodies. And, typically, with most people, it shows up between the neck and the navel, and there\'s some place in that area where there\'s a tingle or a twinge, possibly a pain or a pressure. It\'s typically not very, very strong, but if you scan your body, you\'ll find it. And the idea is not to figure anything out because trying to figure things out is a big part of the problem. It\'s to have an actual physical experience. So we ask people if to, first of all, notice that you\'re stressed, and that\'s a big ask for most of us.

But immediately don\'t don\'t intellectualize it. Just find it in your body, and most people can do that. That takes a lot of the the panic out of it. And once they found this twinge, what we ask them to do is just stay with it for a few seconds. And by a few seconds, I mean, two or three, five seconds tops to just notice it the way a scientist would notice bacteria under a microscope slide, not to judge it or anything else, just to sort of notice what it is. And then take inhale deeply through your nose, hold the breath for a beat, exhale deeply through your mouth. And as you\'re doing that, imagine a door opening over wherever that stress is. It might for a lot of men, it\'s in the heart, in the shoulders, in the gut.

Women feel it there, but also typically also feel it in the neck and the throat and the jaw, but it\'s different for everybody. Wherever you feel it, just imagine a door opening and the stress leaving, pouring out as I I like to think of as a fire hose, and just allow it to leave versus for force it to to leave. And in the beginning, this was all I had, and it\'s by itself, it\'s not a complete solution. But it\'s it literally primes the pump for recovery, and it can really, provide some relief, especially for people who would never even consider meditation for five minutes, much less five seconds, in part because they\'re too busy, but also because it\'s intolerable. It feels like you\'re face to face with all of your fears. That\'s why it\'s so important to think about it in the body because really what burnout is in a very real way is trapped, unprocessed stress that we haven\'t released. Our body is trying to get our attention in genuinely threatening situations and trying to help us manage through those. So if you can imagine being in a near miss car accident, there\'s this gush of adrenaline, cortisol, norepinephrine, etcetera, to heighten our senses to avoid a car accident.

But after the accident doesn\'t happen and we we drive along the road, ninety seconds later, our body will begin to recalibrate and acclimatize, and the cortisol and adrenaline and norepinephrine will leave us. Unless you\'re like us, unless you\'re a burnt out person. And we cling to that feeling, because we think that is the superpower. That is the energy that we need to do what we need to do all day, and so we stay in that place. And our bodies are intended to get into state when we\'re Michael Jordan in double overtime. Yes. That\'s an appropriate time to get into that state, but it\'s not necessary or and it\'s certainly not healthy to be in that state twenty four seven. So a lot of what our program is about is to understand it isn\'t that you can\'t tap into your superpowers as you said, Steve.

It\'s understanding how to do this and to be conscious and deliberate versus, being, really bullied by our our thoughts and emotions and being perpetually in the state because that is not sustainable.

No. I think that hits hits me on the head with with one of the challenges that I face over the years. I\'m only really starting to get the grips grips. So now is that when I get into a into flow state, and and I think this is exaggerated with having a ADHD brain is that you get stuck into one of two ruts, and one of them is the hyperactive. So it\'s like I get into an area where a new project, a new course, a new system, a new AI tool, whatever I\'ve got my head into then, like, I go into it and go it\'s this when I do my deep work, the challenge has been in the past that that deep work state would last weeks, which means I\'m sleeping two or three hours a night, not really being able to socialize, like, can\'t switch off my brain. And that\'s the state I\'ve been in for for so long. And and and thinking that\'s why I\'m successful. Even though for me, it was even when I broke out the perpetual twenty four seven long term, I still got these periods of what you\'re describing. And and so, like, that realization that that isn\'t healthy as well.

Like, all of these things, like, you know, I wish I\'d met you years ago.

Because it\'s taken me so many years of of trial and error and getting things wrong and feeling so much guilt, so much, like failure in in so many parts of my life that thankfully, I feel I I\'ve actually made huge headway hedge headway now. And I\'m and I\'m getting to that point of of existence where I\'m really quite content and happy with where I\'m at in in most areas. But, yeah, I just so wish I\'ve met someone like you those years ago when I was just didn\'t know where to start with all this and didn\'t understand my brain and the fact I\'m a doctor and I know about, like, neurochemistry and all the rest of it was irrelevant. Like, you can\'t you can\'t diagnose yourself very easily. It\'s like

No. No.

You need, you need in outside, it\'s actually just look at you and be able to, like, just often it\'s so bloody obvious to the person sitting opposite you, but so you can be so blind to it yourself. So.

You know, you just said something really important, Steve. Two things that really caught my attention. One is that we need we we tend to isolate into these echo chambers of whether it\'s hyperwork or just this the echo chamber of of sort of believing everything we think and feel. And one of the things we found early on in my therapy practice, I I had the the idea that perhaps we create a a group of entrepreneurs who are going through burnout to get together once a week, in part just to break down the wall that I\'m the only one going through this and, and that it\'s an unsolvable situation. So community really helps. And in fact, that\'s a big part of our process now is that we have a we have, a small mastermind groups of like minded leaders going through the same process. Some of them are further on in the process than others and give hope and encouragement to newcomers that this is really doable. You can really do this.

But it\'s it\'s there\'s just this disconnect intellectually that how could this ever work? And and what you said about having a life today that is, you know, that is so good, it\'s inconceivable. It was inconceivable to me at the time that I could ever have a life worth living. And, I could tolerate it. I might be able to survive it, but I was never gonna really enjoy it. And the the most amazing discovery in my own recovery was that life beyond burnout is, you know, immeasurably wonderful. I had no idea there was another way to live. And that\'s really why we do what we do or why I do it anyways because, not only because I was very fortunate, I think, to to break through burnout in the first place, but it\'s that it\'s the other side of that that I would never have predicted that there was any kind of a life on the other side. And it turns out it is infinitely better than the small potatoes that I was settling for before.

Yep. Fantastic. I\'ve now it\'s an absolutely beautiful place to to draw things to to a close. But I before I go before we go, is there anything else you wanted to mention that I\'ve not asked you any question you wish I\'d asked you that I haven\'t?

No. I\'ve really enjoyed speaking with you. I mean, I really enjoyed speaking with it\'s obvious that you\'ve been through this and I\'ve been through this. And the the hopeful thing, this is you know, for your listeners, I was in a complete state of hopelessness when I, you know, when I first started this journey. And I guess that\'s the thing I would leave with people is that if if only by watching you, Steve, and and and seeing the way your life is now and that you\'re you\'re skiing not only literally but metaphorically, there is hope. That\'s the point. One thing I would offer to people is that we want people to get some help right away and to see that there is light at the end of the tunnel. So we have a program called Fast Fix Call, at fastfixcall.com, and, and just book book in some time.

It\'s only fifteen minutes. It\'s completely free. We ask you to take a quick burnout assessment, and then we will give you some, techniques that are customized for you that you can use right now. It\'s not the complete answer, but what we want people to get a taste of is that you can feel better. And if and most people, once they get a taste of feeling a little bit better, begin to realize, well, maybe I can, especially if I can accept that I\'m doing this to myself. Maybe there really is a solution. So, yeah, I\'d leave people with that. Fastfixcall.com is just a a quick, fast way to get some relief.

Absolutely fantastic. Thank you for that. And, yeah, and just to really to to double down on that is that I honestly believed that I that I was different. My situation was different. My business was different. All these things I hear my clients say to me now, and they look at me and and and say, yeah. But but, Steve, you\'ve always been good at this. Or, oh, yeah.

It\'s easy for you to say, Steve. And, you know, they they don\'t know the story as deep well as I do because I\'ve lived through it. And the same with you is, like, the only reason I can do this with authenticity now and talk about these things and and share. And why I share some things on social media is not because I\'m trying to show off. It\'s just trying to say, look. You look back at my profile x number of years ago, or if I told you what life used to be like then, I just wanna show you that, you know, actually, if you take these first steps, if you, you know, follow what Scott\'s doing and take his take his quick fix and, you know, take those first steps, and then that that could be the the the push over the the hill on the way down, the good way down. I mean, to, the snowball starting the snowball turning in a in a fantastic way

Exactly.

Rather than having to keep on pushing it up and up and up. So, yeah, take take, Scott\'s advice. Just one more time, what\'s the the web address in case people didn\'t catch it?

It\'s called fastfixcall.com. And, yeah, we\'d love we\'d love to help you. The idea it\'s first aid, basically, for burnout. And we\'ll we\'ll give you some things that you can use right now today to feel a little bit better and hopefully begin to see that there is light at the end of the tunnel.

Cool. Scott, before I let you go, I\'ve got a couple of quick questions I\'d like to ask everybody. You may or may not be primed about these, but they\'re they\'re not they\'re not difficult. So hopefully, we\'re not

Okay. Good.

Firstly, I love apps and technology, and I love to hear what other people use, enjoy, benefit from in terms of apps, web browsers, or just cool gadgets, whatever whatever is making your life easier at the moment.

You know, you mentioned AI, earlier, and there are, we use AI in a lot of different ways. And, you know, it\'s it\'s just an amazingly amazingly useful tool. One of the ways that I like to use it, from a business standpoint is to, and and you can do this without being, you know, super proficient with with with AI. But even if you go to chat GBT, you can you can say to you can create a kind of a business consultant, in a in a couple of sentences, a couple of prompts, that that can help you look at your you know, if you if you\'re kind of wondering, well, what what are my superpowers? What what do I do that\'s that will have the most impact? You can very easily, with a couple of sentences, prime, tool as general as ChatGBT to create a wonderful, kind of a interview process, where ChatGVT will will really help guide you into a new perspective. It\'s not the same as working with Steve with it\'s not the same as working with you, but there are a lot of very interesting uses. And the more creative and fearless we are about AI, I think we can find some pretty interesting applications.

No. I totally agree. We use it all the time, and and, we used to we we have a a process for, for example, our recruitment system. And now with instead of us guiding and helping our clients and writing job postings, we just built some prompts and say, just just use them because they\'re they\'re as good as we could do. So, you know Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah.

No. Fantastic. Anything else? Any of the browser plugged into anything you use?

You know, really, the thing that continues to work for me better than anything else is this very simple r and r technique. And, you know, meditation is the gold standard. All of the evidence is just absolutely solid. But if you can just allow yourself to be present to at least the physical manifestation of feeling upset or, or fearful or anxious, if you can just allow yourself to be present to the physical manifestation of it for just a couple of seconds, take a deep breath, and exhale. It\'s incredible how powerful that is.

Cool. Last question. The name of this podcast is Systematic Your Success, but what does success mean to you and why?

Well, today, it it really is being able to share these things that have worked, for us. And, you know, the ability to to to know, I guess, to begin with, you know, what what a life well lived might mean, because, you know, I look back in horror at the years I wasted. I don\'t do it a lot, but occasionally, I do. And I think of all of the the silly and and a lot of it was from living in an echo chamber. It took me working with other people, talking to other people. So success today, I think, really needs to be to be able to be useful. And that\'s that\'s really the purpose of a burnout breakthrough. And this new book, You\'re Not Toast, the whole point is to try to be useful.

Yeah. And by the way, I love the title of your book. Yeah. You\'re so for for any for anyone who\'s interested, “You\'re Not Toast”. And if you can go to burnoutbreakthrough.com, and, you can get a copy on there, I I believe. And we\'ll put all these Yes. Links to send in the show notes as always. Scott, it\'s been an absolute pleasure having you on the show.

I\'ve really enjoyed this. I knew I would when I saw your, you know, you pop up on on the, applications. But, yeah, you didn\'t disappoint.

Same here, Steve.

Thank you so much.

I\'ll circle back. I wanna know more about Sweden.

Yeah. Yeah. Anytime. Good. Thank you very much indeed, Scott. Pleasure having you on.

What Most Entrepreneurs Get Wrong About Burnout—And How to Break Free with Scott Anderson, Founder of Doubledare | Ep 228

That’s where Scott Anderson was before he rebelled against his conditioning.

🎙 In this episode of Systemize Your Success, we talk about what works when the hustle stops working.

KEY TAKEAWAYS: How to Spot and Shift Entrepreneur Burnout

BEST MOMENTS: Breaking Free from Entrepreneur Burnout

TIMESTAMPED OVERVIEW: Real Conversations That Bring Entrepreneur Burnout Into Focus

Episode Transcript

VALUABLE RESOURCES

LINKS TO CONNECT WITH THE GUEST

ABOUT THE GUEST

LINKS TO CONNECT WITH THE HOST

ABOUT THE HOST

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